Amway Global Accreditation: transformation or a sad joke?

[ajgannon]

Excellent comment, rdknyvr!

[netline]

This is so true! I totally agree with rdknyvr.

I don't want to hear religion or politics in a business venue where I'm coming, possibly with a prospect who has differing religious or political views from mine.

In a business meeting where people are so different, and where there is a total mix of people like it is in the Amway business, politics and religion are a no no subject! Even in my quite small business there is people from different contrys, religions and "only GOD knews" different politics. I don´t knew and why should I, we are in business together for another reason, aren´t we.....

I agree with IBOFB,

I do not go to N21 seminars to hear about climate change.

This is a big problem, but we solve that some where else.

I have alwas been enourmously (did I get that right?) motivated after have been to a N21 meeting. And there you never hear talk about politics and/or religions!

I will quote some lines from a N21 leaflet:
This convention promises to offer insights, experience, perspectives, and wisdom. Topics will include business building techniques as well as challenging & inspiring sucess stories. The Regional Conference is designed to help you reach the goals you have for your business and your life!

[TB 2 IBO]

Let me ask another question IBOFB and others. Had a person got on a stage that had a politically left viewpoint and opinion and belief, would he/she have drawn the same rampant criticisms from you personally (Say Al Fraken or Al Gore)? My guess would be that it would not, and in fact, I believe it would have gave you cause to write a PRO-support blog for this person.

You guess wrong. You apparently have missed the entire thrust of my post. It would have been as wrong to have Al Franken or Al Gore speaking politics, or non-business related topics, as it was to have Bob McEwen speaking on them.

It's irrelevant what my politics are - what's relevant is that a large number of folk would potentially have been offended, and that damages other peoples businesses. I'm just an example.

The fact you can't even step outside your perspective and see this is I think indicative of the problem, I've little doubt that many Yager leaders simply can't see the problem either. Review the comments on my site and Amthrax's as well, it's not like I'm unique.

Do I take it your answer to my question is that no, I'm not welcome in the Amway business?

Bro, it is simple to play Monday morning quarterback and say, "No, no, no, I wouldn't have done that." My thought here is, that you have, at the very least, not said anything or wouldn't have wrote anything regarding a Fraken or Gore talk. It would not have incited you to consider it at all if it were a left leaning speaker, NO DOUBT. Perhaps you wouldn't write a Pro-blog about it, but you certainly wouldn't have wrote a 5 page tirade of it.

RDK, while I appreciate your comments, you are absolutely wrong. He didn't break the rules, any of them. Go back and read my explanation on labels and personal attacks. None of that took place during that talk.

Relating certain politicians and their policies (whether true or perceived), to the creation of a "slave-state" falls under the acceptable side of the rules as he believes it is.

Again, I have to say the only reason it ruffled IBOFB's and other's feathers, is because they were taught a certain politics growing up. When the very mention of something that differs from their understanding, it is immediately labeled offensive.

IBOFB, everyone is welcome in this business. That doesn't mean your thoughts and beliefs won't be challenged, and as a thinking person, that has a brain, you can choose to agree or disagree. If you are the type of person that would get up and leave or quit because of something like this, well, then your dream isn't big enough or you don't understand the business.

Regarding the new person, it is your job to let them know before hand that things may be said they don't agree with, take it in stride and move on. If you have a question, ask!

[ibofightback]

It would not have incited you to consider it at all if it were a left leaning speaker, NO DOUBT.

You are so utterly and completely wrong about this TB2IBO. The fact you can't comprehend that says an awful lot about your thought processes and your projection of them on to me.

[Bridgett]

I find it a bit arrogant when someone professes to know the inner workings of another person's brain, when it is opposite of what that other person very specifically shares in regards to what they are thinking.

For one to say, "No, that's not what you'd do, no that's not what you'd think," is really an interesting response for someone in a people business, who's success is directly related to not being a jerk.

Perhaps it's only an online alter ego?

[MichMan]

I find it a bit arrogant when someone professes to know the inner workings of another person's brain, when it is opposite of what that other person very specifically shares in regards to what they are thinking.

Funny. Aren't you the one who questions other people's motives for posting here? Are you guilty of the same thing?

I remember a long time ago that I answered your "what is your motive for posting here" question. You prompltly said that you doubted my response and called it "pretty lame."

Anyway, don't we ALL make judgements about other people's statements?

If the politician says, "I am not going to raise your taxes and I support the Second Amendment" but his record does not back it up, what is a person to believe?

[ibofightback]

Let's take another tack on this ...

MichMan, TB2IBO ... I assume you can agree that I was offended by the talk?

Can you agree that other folk on this forum also say they were offended by the talk?

Can you agree that people who supported Barack Obama and/or believe Climate Change to be a serious problem, that they too would have felt offended or at least extremely uncomfortable by the talk?

[MichMan]

I realize that you get offended by conservative politics. But I don't recall other people having knee jerk reactions as you have had.

Remember this one?

THIS THREAD IS LOCKED!!!! AARRRRRRRR!!!!!!!

[rdknyvr]

TB2IBO said:

RDK, while I appreciate your comments, you are absolutely wrong. He didn't break the rules, any of them. Go back and read my explanation on labels and personal attacks. None of that took place during that talk.

Relating certain politicians and their policies (whether true or perceived), to the creation of a "slave-state" falls under the acceptable side of the rules as he believes it is.

I did re-read your comment before my post and again now. You employ a fairly pedestrian "straw-man attack" strategy where you ask if he called Obama a "left wing communist pig" and Clinton a "womanizing man-whore with the ethics of Stalin," and then proceed to show he did not say THOSE outrageous things, and then move to your conclusion that he did not break any rules. Duh.

Your second statement:

Relating certain politicians and their policies (whether true or perceived), to the creation of a "slave-state" falls under the acceptable side of the rules as he believes it is.

So who determines what is acceptable and within the rules AT AN AMWAY BUSINESS MEETING? "...falls under the acceptable side of the rules as he believes it is?" Is it McEwen who makes that call? The leadership of InterNET? Or Amway? Seems you are abrogating to yourself the authority to SUBJECTIVELY make that call... subject to what YOU decide fits the rules AND YOUR PERSONAL WORLD VIEW.

Your third statement:

... the only reason it ruffled IBOFB's and other's feathers, is because they were taught a certain politics growing up. When the very mention of something that differs from their understanding, it is immediately labeled offensive.

How do you explain my being offended? If we were to sit down for a talk about politics, you might find me MORE conservative than you. I happen to AGREE with 95% McEwen's politics and remain very open minded regarding some of his environmental assertions (but not his laughably poor science).

Perhaps the more troubling issue goes back to the original post by IBOFB... that some systems, in this case InterNET, believe that regardless of the silly Accreditation process they had to endure in order to be eligible for some pretty fancy bonus money, they are independent third party businesses in the sense that Orrin Woodward claimed -- both at the IBO level and at the System level, and that they can apply their version of rules interpretation to whatever they want. McEwan started his talk with the explicit statement that he wanted to educate people with a view to the two pending elections -- one in Canada and one in the US.

The fact that it offends me is close to irrelevant because as IBOFB pointed out earlier, I know I have choices within the Amway business and I'm confident enough to exercise them. Where it's an issue is when I'm trying to sponsor a new customer or business associate, and I have to spend time undoing the nonsense perceptions created by the crap you guys are indulging in as part of wiping your manure (and I use 'your' in a generic sense, not you in particular) off the Amway brand name, one by one, before moving to an effective close. My main consolation right now is that the "change" and accreditation process is much longer than just this year, it's a multi-year process and eventually you will have to abide by Amway's objective application of THEIR rules of business, not your own.

[Bridgett]

Regarding the topic of this thread...

I would say that my views would lean more to the conservative side than the liberal side.

In addition, I too would be offended (deem inappropriate) if Bob McEwen gave his speech at my LOA's function, or at an Amway function.

To attack IBOFB's character, claiming that he's offended (deem inappropriate) by the talk only because he does not share the views expressed in the talk, is an interesting tactic, once again, to pick a fight, and to get into stupid arguments.

Greaaat. Here's another thread about to go in the dumper.