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#31
:help:

Bridgett Wrote:
ajgannon Wrote:Bridgett, weird alert! Weird alert!


Exactly!!! Big Grin


No kidding...I am glad to provide you folks with an outlet to focus all that corrective energy.

I see your point, and I apologize in advance to that one person who will someday genuinely wish to be a customer or IBO of Amway and, while I am prospecting him to lease commercial retail space, asks me if what I have got in mind is Amway; but I, unfortunately, drive them away with my shallow and callous remark of, "No, this is NOT Amway! What is wrong with you?"

That would truly be weird.

May they find my sincerest sympathies and apologies in the pages of their newly founded anti-Amway blog space.

And thank you for helping me to see the error of my ways.

</heavySarcasm>

I love you. Both.


EDIT: My full reply given a new restriction on my ability to edit...Cheers!
 Reply
#32
Deb Wrote:
ibofightback Wrote:* Is it true Diamonds and above make most of their money from selling "tools"?


Here's another one that shouldn't be denied, since there are old court cases that show that some folks DID make more from tools back in the '80's/90's. However, I would hope that Accreditation and the "Exodus" a few years ago have done away with most of those folks???? Let's face it - if openness/honesty was going to significantly alter their income.....well, it was time for them to go :grin:


Deb,

I think it would also be a subject to point out, simply based on the shear numbers of some of the larger diamond's and above businesses, the tool income can surpass that of the Amway income. However, if you base it on proper philosophy that if a system is of value to a wide range of people that achieve "success" using the tools ans system it is absolutely ok for that person(s) to make such income.
It is only through labor and painful effort, by grim energy and resolute courage, that we move on to better things. --Roosevelt
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#33
ibofightback Wrote:The answer being "cause I want to work with a company that has lasted long enough to at least get some kind of reputation, unlike most you're involved with Ty!"


OMG - I almost spit Diet Coke on my keyboard :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
 Reply
#34
TB 2 IBO Wrote:Deb,

I think it would also be a subject to point out, simply based on the shear numbers of some of the larger diamond's and above businesses, the tool income can surpass that of the Amway income. However, if you base it on proper philosophy that if a system is of value to a wide range of people that achieve "success" using the tools ans system it is absolutely ok for that person(s) to make such income.


(Emphasis mine)
It scares me when a person's tool income exceeds their product sales income. I get the impression that THAT person's loyalties now lie with their means of creating tool income. I suspect that person might be inclined to jump to a different MLM who offers a more lucrative tool-money market - Lord knows we've seen that happen more than once. And imagine what it does to the average downline IBO?? What if your upline Big Pin decides to leave Amway to sell some super-expensive juice Confusedhock: and takes a bunch of your downline with them (even though you're smart enough to realize that leaving Amway would be a foolish mistake??)

Personally, I would want my upline to be up to their ears in SA-8. They can make tool $$$ - I just don't want it to be the focal point.
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#35
First of all, that "LOL" reference was in regards to a certain "mad scientist" Amway critic who sits in his darkened room posting on every Amway site he can find and ends every post with "LOL."

Wearyeyed Wrote:(Why does Amway) raise the hair on the backs of many a person who hears the word?


Secondly, I think one reason why the name Amway makes people's hair stand up is because in part to the curiosity approach that you advocate.
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#36
MichMan Wrote:Secondly, I think one reason why the name Amway makes people's hair stand up is because in part to the curiosity approach that you advocate.


I have a dear friend of many decades, who told me, when I mentioned that I was getting involved with the family Amway business: "I have been duped into going to Amway recruiting meetings several times now, and it REALLY pi$$es me off. Don't EVER try to sign me up" Of course, I didn't.

Had someone handled this guy correctly, and HONESTLY, he could have been an amazing IBO because he had contacts all over the USA.
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#37
Deb Wrote:It scares me when a person's tool income exceeds their product sales income. I get the impression that THAT person's loyalties now lie with their means of creating tool income.

That is your perspective Deb, and from what I have read from you, much like Tex (too a far lesser degree Wink ), the root of all your past "negative" rants. Although probably based in some truth, many many other IBOs simply do not have that experience or view it from the same set of eyes.

Quote: I suspect that person might be inclined to jump to a different MLM who offers a more lucrative tool-money market - Lord knows we've seen that happen more than once. And imagine what it does to the average downline IBO?? What if your upline Big Pin decides to leave Amway to sell some super-expensive juice Confusedhock: and takes a bunch of your downline with them (even though you're smart enough to realize that leaving Amway would be a foolish mistake??)
Again, from your perspective. When I see the owners of Amway giving a check for 500k to diamonds, one would think they are doing well and making $$ from Amway and want others to do the same. Thus, foot the initial expense to develop a learning system for a wide range of people, that will be of value, low cost and time saving for everyone.

Quote:Personally, I would want my upline to be up to their ears in SA-8. They can make tool $$$ - I just don't want it to be the focal point.
Even if your upline is "up to his/her ears" in SA-8...it is still feasible and probably inevitable that the income generated from the system can surpass their individual incomes from Amway. That being said, the key word is "individual" incomes. I bet if you took the combined Amway incomes from Diamond groups it would far outweigh the total income generated from the system.
It is only through labor and painful effort, by grim energy and resolute courage, that we move on to better things. --Roosevelt
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#38
Deb Wrote:It scares me when a person's tool income exceeds their product sales income. I get the impression that THAT person's loyalties now lie with their means of creating tool income. ... They can make tool $$$ - I just don't want it to be the focal point.


The problem is the perverse income structure of the "tool industry."

Amway's business structure is set up that the income yo make off of each new person diminishes the farther up the ladder. First of all, they pay out only $35 percent in bonuses. And when you break a Platinum, you get 4 percent... Platinums in depth will be paid 1/2 of one percent, 1/4 of one percent, depending of your level, Diamond, Emerald, etc.

In the tool world, our first cut of the cds/tapes at Platinum was 50 cents each. The vast majority of the ibos make nothing. When you read many of the court cases, you see that the Diamonds were making $1-$3 EACH per tape/cd purchased by the person at the lowest level.

So where is the real incentive? Does that Diamond make more money from that ibo's $300 per month in products? Or do they make more money from that $300 in tools/bsms/conventions?

Imagine a Diamond looking out over a banquet room full of 3000 people. Does he make more money from those people all purchasing a water treatment system, where he would average 1/4 to 4 percent? Or would he make more money if they all spent the same amount of money on his new "Zoom to the Top" cd set?

That bonus structure invites profit-taking and the kinds of tool shenanigans and thievery we have seen.

Maybe Amway's accreditation process should state that no AMO is allowed to pay out more in bonuses than Amway Corp does for products and that the profits need to be shared ALL THE WAY down the line.
 Reply
#39
MichMan Wrote:
Deb Wrote:It scares me when a person's tool income exceeds their product sales income. I get the impression that THAT person's loyalties now lie with their means of creating tool income. ... They can make tool $$$ - I just don't want it to be the focal point.


The problem is the perverse income structure of the "tool industry."

Amway's business structure is set up that the income yo make off of each new person diminishes the farther up the ladder. First of all, they pay out only $35 percent in bonuses. And when you break a Platinum, you get 4 percent... Platinums in depth will be paid 1/2 of one percent, 1/4 of one percent, depending of your level, Diamond, Emerald, etc.

In the tool world, our first cut of the cds/tapes at Platinum was 50 cents each. The vast majority of the ibos make nothing. When you read many of the court cases, you see that the Diamonds were making $1-$3 EACH per tape/cd purchased by the person at the lowest level.

So where is the real incentive? Does that Diamond make more money from that ibo's $300 per month in products? Or do they make more money from that $300 in tools/bsms/conventions?

Imagine a Diamond looking out over a banquet room full of 3000 people. Does he make more money from those people all purchasing a water treatment system, where he would average 1/4 to 4 percent? Or would he make more money if they all spent the same amount of money on his new "Zoom to the Top" cd set?

That bonus structure invites profit-taking and the kinds of tool shenanigans and thievery we have seen.

Maybe Amway's accreditation process should state that no AMO is allowed to pay out more in bonuses than Amway Corp does for products and that the profits need to be shared ALL THE WAY down the line.


First of all, I find this an absolutely hilarious assertion by you Michman. For someone who is typically on the right side of the political aisle, your spreading the wealth around example here is truly shocking. Confusedhock: Confusedhock: Your boy Obama would truly be proud! I am mostly kidding here...I know where you stand.

Secondly, why would it matter in the end how much a person receives from the cds? Shouldn't the correct question ALWAYS be, do you as the recipient of the purchased product find value in what you have bought? If you do, why complain that someone is making money from the sale? If not, you have 6 stinking months to return the product and again why complain (it is in the contract with Amway about BSMs)?
It is only through labor and painful effort, by grim energy and resolute courage, that we move on to better things. --Roosevelt
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#40
I never said Obama should regulate Amway. I said that AMWAY should regulate Amway. This is what democracy is all about. One of our Founders said American democracy could only survive if individuals kept themselves and lived by the Ten Commandments. This would be a good long term strategy for the AMO abusers as well.
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