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scheibeler's testimonials - some math help please
#31
MichMan Wrote:#1 The going rate for a Pearl speaker at a seminar in our Yager affiliated group was around $500. (This Pearl was also in a Yager group). Even if he spoke EVERY weekend, his speaking fees would only be $2000 for the month. His total system income maxed out at $9900.


Which gives even more reason to be skeptical of this post. We've already pointed out his structure/Amway income claims seems questionable

Quote:#2 I am clearly not assuming that all Pearls in all organizations operate like this.

Then what was you point? I've never claimed nobody was earning excessive tool incomes, to the contrary. I've just claimed it's not as universal as some would have us believe. Have you noticed Scheibeler has never said anything about his tool income? Why not? My guess is because it doesn't fit into the "everyone makes more from tools!" meme.

Quote:#3 I believe from his statement that the increase in tools was to come after he acheived Emerald, not as some side agreement. "As I approached the Emerald level, several of my upline Diamonds counseled me to quit my job. I didn’t want to quit, and I was very heavily pressured to do so. Among other things, I was offered a bigger cut of the profits from the tool volume in my organization. Aside from the staggering increase in tools income in the jump from Pearl to Emerald..."

You're correct, I misread that. My apologies.
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#32
MichMan Wrote:Spoken like a real soap-seller!

Come on now... what do soap-sellers like your grandfather (or Rich DeVos) really know about building an Amway business today? They are so 50's! This is a new millenium. They are WAAAAY too old school! The soap-sellers are only jealous that all of Amway's growth is coming from people within "the system."

(Deb, you know this is tongue in cheek. Thanks for your perspective. Too bad more leaders in Amway didn't share it over the last few decades)


Oh - I caught the "tone"....LOL!!!

What tickles me is that through Accreditation and the efforts of people/IBOs/ABO's on this forum - the trend is swinging back to the Soapseller days :yahoo: :yahoo: :yahoo: The day I met with Jody Victor at the IBOAI, one of the things we discussed was the difference between OUR group numbers (as "Soapsellers") as opposed to the average BFYATOTDTS "active" IBO. Our "retention rate" (having downline renew each year - often for decades) was sky-high; and the personal PV per IBO was tons higher, too. In other words, if you encourage people to sell products to retail customers so they make a small profit each month - they're happier and stay in the business longer.

I'm going to have a long story to tell you guys about what happens when you do it the "old AMO way" - but I've got errands to run right now.
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#33
There were only two methods of building Amway of which we were ever told:

#1 The way of the "system" which is where all of Amway's growth was coming from and where all the big money was

#2 The way of the little old lady in tennis shoes pulling her little red wagon around the neighborhood selling soap
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#34
Deb Wrote:What tickles me is that through Accreditation and the efforts of people/IBOs/ABO's on this forum - the trend is swinging back to the Soapseller days :yahoo: :yahoo: :yahoo: The day I met with Jody Victor at the IBOAI, one of the things we discussed was the difference between OUR group numbers (as "Soapsellers") as opposed to the average BFYATOTDTS "active" IBO. Our "retention rate" (having downline renew each year - often for decades) was sky-high; and the personal PV per IBO was tons higher, too. In other words, if you encourage people to sell products to retail customers so they make a small profit each month - they're happier and stay in the business longer.


Well Deb...it's my belief that the changes the "Transformation," which were to start "officially" taking place in September 2007, is what caused the mass exodus.

These changes, several of them, heavily included retailing. And not for the sake of retailing in and of itself, but how a retail focus greatly influences the entire Amway business and its future.

Several years back, research was done and found that if an IBO made a mere $1,000 a year, the rentention rate went from a paltry 30-something percent to 90-something percent. So what was called The "First Circle" Inititiative was implemented.Obviously (but nothing is I guess obvious to everyone) retailing was the first (and only) way a brand new IBO could make money in the Amway Business, because the BV money was not significant at that level. And how exactly would a new IBO get to a significant BV level, to see any money, if they quit because they aren't making any money? :doh:

There was a major division on the IBOAI Board to support or reject these efforts. Many left. And the ones that stayed, well, still, I wasn't seeing much change. So I guess some needed to be "encouraged" to teach retailing, and support such efforts. I guess not having their businesses completely fall a part because people were quitting 'cause they weren't making money, and those who *were* sticking around were getting discouraged of their downline quitting, and having to replace them every year, were also started to quit, wasn't enough incentive. Rolleyes

Hence, Fast Track was born. Fast Track rewards the Sponsor, Platinum, Emerald, and Diamond, for helping a new IBO retail, sponsor, and help those who he sponsors, to retail in the first 90 days. Personally, I am not a huge fan of Fast Track because it requires too much sponsoring and too much volume, too early for my tastes.

If I were the architect, I would prefer that for the first 90 days, the focus for new IBOs would be on their own retailing efforts; and then slide Fast Track in to the next 90 days (and maybe put some special examptions for the first three months, in case a new IBO does sponsor someone right off the bat, so that everyone still gets "credit.")

But there's this thing called "politics" that I'm sure will impede anything logical from occurring. :glare:
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#35
Bridgett Wrote:There was a major division on the IBOAI Board to support or reject these efforts. Many left. And the ones that stayed, well, still, I wasn't seeing much change. So I guess some needed to be "encouraged" to teach retailing, and support such efforts. I guess not having their businesses completely fall a part because people were quitting 'cause they weren't making money, and those who *were* sticking around were getting discouraged of their downline quitting, and having to replace them every year, were also started to quit, wasn't enough incentive. Rolleyes


It would be encouraging if these changes are indeed happening across the board.

But you have to understand the mindset of many LOAs (the tool mongers as Deb calls them). The influx of new people produces a lot of tool volume which is sold at a very high margin. Ten new couples in the first 90 days could mean hundreds or even thousands of dollars in seminar tickets, convention tickets, starter packs of cds, contacting cds, standing order cds and books, websites, voice mail, etc. How much profit would an Emerald or Diamond see from 10, 20 or even 30 customers? Half of one percent? Quarter of one percent?

So yes, they have many people quit. But so what? The overall profit was greater and faster done the wrong way than than from teaching people how to do it the right way.... Using the products, finding some customers, getting profitable, then sponsoring, (however you said it).
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#36
MichMan Wrote:
Bridgett Wrote:There was a major division on the IBOAI Board to support or reject these efforts. Many left. And the ones that stayed, well, still, I wasn't seeing much change. So I guess some needed to be "encouraged" to teach retailing, and support such efforts. I guess not having their businesses completely fall a part because people were quitting 'cause they weren't making money, and those who *were* sticking around were getting discouraged of their downline quitting, and having to replace them every year, were also started to quit, wasn't enough incentive. Rolleyes


It would be encouraging if these changes are indeed happening across the board.

But you have to understand ...


Oh, I do understand. Hence why I said

Bridgett Wrote:But there's this thing called 'politics' that I'm sure will impede anything logical from occurring." :glare:

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#37
Bridgett Wrote:Well Deb...it's my belief that the changes the "Transformation," which were to start "officially" taking place in September 2007, is what caused the mass exodus.


I think I disagree?

Being a "critic" (and of course this is just my opinion)- I've read WAAAAY too much stuff on other forums of the stuff the TEAM leaders were saying/teaching. Stuff that was happening long before Sept 2007. Stuff that made my eyes pop - wondering how the Corp/IBOAI could allow such outrageous (IMO) behavior to happen?? I visited the IBOA HQ in May 2008 - and the 81 3" binders filled with information about that sort of stuff....well, it didn't all occur in 6 months or so, I'll bet Wink

And just about that time, I think folks at the Corp had been painfully reminded due to Dick DV's Governor bid, that some Big Pins had really muddied Amway/Quixtar's names through the years.

Plus, the 50th anniversary was looming on the horizon; and they had already lost a Founder.

So I think it was an "aligning of the planets", so to speak. The Corp decided to take back their good name; and enforce their rules; and protect the "little guy".....and there was a fallout. A BIG fallout - either of those terminated, or those who left in protest of the "New Amway"

And who's left?? YOU guys!! :yahoo: :yahoo: :yahoo: You who are a LOT different than the "old school" way of doing things. I don't think the exodus hurt Amway in the slightest bit Big Grin
 Reply
#38
MichMan Wrote:Ten new couples in the first 90 days could mean hundreds or even thousands of dollars in seminar tickets, convention tickets, starter packs of cds, contacting cds, standing order cds and books, websites, voice mail, etc. How much profit would an Emerald or Diamond see from 10, 20 or even 30 customers? Half of one percent? Quarter of one percent?


Let's see. Ten new couples. Statistically maybe two go on the "system". Approximate spend and profit based on N21 recommendations and N21 bsm rebate schedule:

Builders Pack (incl one WES ticket, two BBS tickets, CDs, manual, contacting CDs and websites, website access, books etc) $249
- Emerald and above rebate ranging from $5.00 to $15.00
CEP (standing order) $31.95/mth
- Emerald and above rebate ranging from $2.50 to $6.00/mth
Extra WES ticket for spouse $179.00
- Emerald and above rebate ranging from $5.00 to $15.00/mth

IBO Spend $523.85
Upline "system profit" $17.50 to $48 = 3% to 9%
Upline profit from a customer or IBO product purchase = 0.5% to 29%

Oh yeah, them tools just roll in the cash Rolleyes
 Reply
#39
Quote:IBO Spend $523.85
Upline "system profit" $17.50 to $48 = 3% to 9%

Where did you pull that figure out of? (Don't tell me...)

Let's look at the last example you brought up. The Scheibler testimony that a Pearl made on his best month from Amway- $3300. His best month from tools $9900. Try and explain where all that money came from if they were making only 3-9% profit.

Also look at court documents from Hart, Schmidt, Stewart, etc. You will see $1 or more profit on each $8 CD from sale between Diamond to Diamond.
 Reply
#40
Deb Wrote:
Bridgett Wrote:Well Deb...it's my belief that the changes the "Transformation," which were to start "officially" taking place in September 2007, is what caused the mass exodus.


I think I disagree?

Being a "critic" (and of course this is just my opinion)- I've read WAAAAY too much stuff on other forums of the stuff the TEAM leaders were saying/teaching. Stuff that was happening long before Sept 2007. Stuff that made my eyes pop - wondering how the Corp/IBOAI could allow such outrageous (IMO) behavior to happen?? I visited the IBOA HQ in May 2008 - and the 81 3" binders filled with information about that sort of stuff....well, it didn't all occur in 6 months or so, I'll bet Wink

And just about that time, I think folks at the Corp had been painfully reminded due to Dick DV's Governor bid, that some Big Pins had really muddied Amway/Quixtar's names through the years.

Plus, the 50th anniversary was looming on the horizon; and they had already lost a Founder.

So I think it was an "aligning of the planets", so to speak. The Corp decided to take back their good name; and enforce their rules; and protect the "little guy".....and there was a fallout. A BIG fallout - either of those terminated, or those who left in protest of the "New Amway"

And who's left?? YOU guys!! :yahoo: :yahoo: :yahoo: You who are a LOT different than the "old school" way of doing things. I don't think the exodus hurt Amway in the slightest bit Big Grin


I think we agree.

I use September 2007 as the "official" starting point of the Transformation (retail focus, name change, zero tolerance for "stacking," mandatory accreditation--if you wanted your bonuses, national ad campaign, price reductions, etc.) Yes, there was years of abuse that led up to making the decision to even have a Transformation. And then I'm sure it took years to put such Transformation in action.

But the official (no longer just amongst higher pins) start of implementing the changes was Sept 2007. And those online got a "preview" a month earlier of the reaction such changes provoked in some LOAs. Oh the drama! Smile

Amazing that it's been more than two years. So much has changed--for the better. :clapping:
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