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scheibeler's testimonials - some math help please
#21
Bridgett Wrote:Deb,

Do you recall when a Direct Distributor needed to have six months (rather than 3 months) of qualification in a fiscal year?

Do you remember when that change occurred?

Or, I guess a better way of phrasing it: Do you know when the term "Direct Distributor" started to mean (and only mean) that that group had 7,500 PV or more each month, for at least six months in a fiscal year?

Thanks.


Hi Bridgett,

from what I can gather, it happened in 1991 or 1992. Up until then, there were two levels: Direct Distributor (3-m) and Profit Sharing Direct Distributor (6-m). It seems that the DD (3-m) and PSDD (6-m) qualifications were merged into one 6-months qualification.

April 1992 issue of Amagram recognized PSDD and DDs (perhaps these were the qualifications from fiscal 1991?). A few months later, in September 1992 issue of Amagram: A Direct Distributor has maintained qualification as defined in Amway Business Reference Manual for six months in a fiscal year.
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#22
So fiscal year 1992-93.

Thanks SP75.

****************

According to ibofighback's original post, Scheibeler's testimony talks about in 1990 he was a Pearl Direct.

"In 1990, I attained the level of Pearl Direct Distributor..."

But SP75 says,

"A November 1994 issue of Amagram (Emerald recognition) says: The Scheibelers qualified as Directs and Rubys in 1991, Pearls in 1992, and Emeralds in 1994."

:confused:
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#23
This testimonial was not the Scheibeler's one.
ibofightback Wrote:Just to clarify, this was a testimonial Scheibeler published, not his own "story".

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#24
SP75 Wrote:This testimonial was not the Scheibeler's one.
ibofightback Wrote:Just to clarify, this was a testimonial Scheibeler published, not his own "story".


Okay. I see it now--on the first page of this thread, sixth comment.

Thanks. Smile
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#25
Thanks for the info, SP75. Even though I had been an IBO off and on for years - it wasn't until my Grandfather passed away in '93 that I paid any attention to things like "qualification"....LOL!!! By then, a "Direct was 6 months of qualification - 3 of them consecutive"
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#26
I found the testimonial you mentioned. It illustrates the "staggering" discrepancy between Amway income and tool income in some organizations.

Here is his personal experience:

In 1990, I attained the level of Pearl Direct Distributor*, with a very profitable organization. That is, I had twenty personally sponsored distributors, and nine were actively building their organizations. Two had gone direct, i.e., attained the level of Direct Distributor, and the other seven were Silver Producers (their organizations included at least one Direct, but they themselves hadn’t qualified for Direct). My Amway checks included four distinct bonuses for speed of growth, overall volume, profit sharing, and for the number of direct distributors in my organization. My gross income from the Amway corporation–above bonuses plus PV bonuses–peaked at $3300/month. In the five months after I made Pearl, I got AMO checks for $5400, $6100, $7900, $8700, and $9900. Let us be very clear: The AMO checks represented profit sharing from the AMO’s sales of books, tapes, and seminar tickets, plus speaking fees I was paid for appearing at regional rallies.

As I approached the Emerald level, several of my upline Diamonds counseled me to quit my job. I didn’t want to quit, and I was very heavily pressured to do so. Among other things, I was offered a bigger cut of the profits from the tool volume in my organization. Aside from the staggering increase in tools income in the jump from Pearl to Emerald, I was taken aback at just how much money was at stake–and how much more the Diamonds and other high pin levels were making. It was obvious that the AMO income represented far more than their Amway income.


IBOFB, you have stated repeatedly that there is no proof that higher level pins make most of their money from tools.

Here is an example of a Pearl who's tool income was 2-3 times his Amway income. And who stood to increase his tool income even more as soon as he went Emerald.
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#27
MichMan Wrote:IBOFB, you have stated repeatedly that there is no proof that higher level pins make most of their money from tools.

Here is an example of a Pearl who's tool income was 2-3 times his Amway income. And who stood to increase his tool income even more as soon as he went Emerald.


(1) That income included speaking fees, which is a different issue. As a new pearl they may have been in demand as a speaker. That income is not derived from their personal Amway group and unless they continue to grow will not continue.
(2) How many people are there that have ever qualified Pearl, MichMan? Tens of thousands I would suspect. You really think you can extrapolate from one to all like that? What's more, I'd be willing to bet this guy/gal was affiliated with the same organisation all the other complaints of similar nature come from.
(3) I can guarantee you that you can't extrapolate it to *anyone* anymore. Being offered a "bigger cut" than others is for example banned under accreditation
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#28
#1 The going rate for a Pearl speaker at a seminar in our Yager affiliated group was around $500. (This Pearl was also in a Yager group). Even if he spoke EVERY weekend, his speaking fees would only be $2000 for the month. His total system income maxed out at $9900.

#2 I am clearly not assuming that all Pearls in all organizations operate like this.

#3 I believe from his statement that the increase in tools was to come after he acheived Emerald, not as some side agreement. "As I approached the Emerald level, several of my upline Diamonds counseled me to quit my job. I didn’t want to quit, and I was very heavily pressured to do so. Among other things, I was offered a bigger cut of the profits from the tool volume in my organization. Aside from the staggering increase in tools income in the jump from Pearl to Emerald..."
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#29
MichMan Wrote:IBOFB, you have stated repeatedly that there is no proof that higher level pins make most of their money from tools.

Here is an example of a Pearl who's tool income was 2-3 times his Amway income. And who stood to increase his tool income even more as soon as he went Emerald.


In my many years of reading posts/stories/links to court records, etc - I've come to realize that there are some systems/AMOs who put a LOT of emphasis on pushing tools and getting butts into seats at functions. (I tend to refer to them as Tool Mongers) Ironically, these groups also seem to produce the majority of unhappy-ex-IBOs :rant: so the data that comes out in court from time to time does support the proof that some earned more money from the System than from the sales of Amway products. A few years ago, we had the Shaws in Edmore, MI who embezzled millions of dollars from their neighbors/friends with a land-investment scheme....all to purchase tons of products so they could achieve Diamond. The implication being that once they hit Diamond, the income from their system would be ample enough to support them even though they wouldn't actually qualify at Diamond and receive that bonus again from Amway. Of course, Amway figured out the ploy and disallowed the pin level - then the authorities got involved and the Shaws did some jail time....

On the other hand, there ARE groups who are "Soapsellers" (see - it's a GOOD thing! Tongue ) and they and their downlines are happily building their businesses. The majority of their income comes from the Amway Corp; System income is secondary. Since these folks actually retail and make a little profit - if and when they decide to leave for whatever reason - they aren't angry - they just choose to do something else. You generally don't read their posts on forums; and they don't take their upline or Amway to court.

I really believe, after reading THIS forum, that there are now more of the Soapsellers out there, than the Tool Mongers - it's just that the Mongers make the news...... Confusedhock:
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#30
Spoken like a real soap-seller!

Come on now... what do soap-sellers like your grandfather (or Rich DeVos) really know about building an Amway business today? They are so 50's! This is a new millenium. They are WAAAAY too old school! The soap-sellers are only jealous that all of Amway's growth is coming from people within "the system."

(Deb, you know this is tongue in cheek. Thanks for your perspective. Too bad more leaders in Amway didn't share it over the last few decades)
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