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Paying the Health Care Tax
#31
Quote:1)Lots of stuff will be added to the "concept" from both sides. Things like a public option, abortion issues, pork, etc etc.

This is what royally screws things up. It becomes virtually impossible to understand what's really happening.

Quote:2)When the bills are combined they will be combined by one single person.
I find that hard to believe, and even if partly true I'm sure it's only part of the procedure
Quote:3)Washington's refusal to allow the public to view these bills, because "we wouldn't understand the legal jargon" (Dem. Kerry Mass)
Trying to google this to get both sides of the story and all I can find is the right talking about it. However, I also found numerous sites with the original senate bill posted (here's one part), so it's clearly available ... oh, yep, it's on the frontpage at http://help.senate.gov, and the baukis bill is on http://finance.senate.gov/sitepages/legislation.htm so this story doesn't seem to be true?

Quote:4)Crazy penalties for businesses that want to continue to use private insurance. (4000 up to 20000 per year per employee)(Government option $400 per employee per year)

Everything I've read says businesses (and people) get the choice. On what basis do you claim they're penalized for not taking the public option?

Quote:The benefit of the crazy system, is that it will take some time for all of this to be put together. Hopefully putting pressure on the folks in D.C. to allow us to view the bill before they vote. So the people can actually have a say.

follow the links above, even all the senate discussions are there.
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#32
More here on how you (in America) are going to be affected:

The Baucus Bill Is a Tax Bill
Middle-class families would get hit with a double-digit increase in their marginal tax rate.

Most astounding of all is what this Congress is willing to do to struggling middle-class families. The bill would impose nearly $400 billion in new taxes and fees. Nearly 90% of that burden will be shouldered by those making $200,000 or less.

Senate Democrats are also erecting new barriers to middle-class ascent. A family of four making $54,000 would pay $4,800 for health insurance, with the remainder coming from subsidies. If they work harder and raise their income to $66,000, their cost of insurance rises by $2,800. In other words, earning another $12,000 raises their bill by $2,800—a marginal tax rate of 23%. Double-digit increases in effective tax rates will have detrimental effects on the incentives of millions of Americans.

Why does it make sense to double down on the kinds of entitlements already in crisis, instead of passing medical malpractice reform and allowing greater competition among insurers? Why should middle-class families pay more than $2,000 on average, by my estimate, in taxes in the process?

Mr. Holtz-Eakin is a former director of the Congressional Budget Office and a fellow at the Manhattan Institute.





http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424...34348.html
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#33
I'm not going to bother checking the "facts" of that opinion piece, but it's interesting that you complain that the rich are paying all the tax money while simultaneously complaining if taxes might be increased on the middle class Confusedcratch:

Anyone, the thrust of the piece I 100% agree with - your medical malpractice system needs reform. Indeed, I think your whole culture of "sue 'em" is I think very destructive.
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#34
ibofightback Wrote:Anyone, the thrust of the piece I 100% agree with - your medical malpractice system needs reform. Indeed, I think your whole culture of "sue 'em" is I think very destructive.


It's insane; and it costs ALL of us $$$$. If a person twists their ankle while walking on a public street - they start looking for someone to sue :rant: What ever happened to "it's my own clumsy fault"?????


Another aspect of this whole health care mess that makes me nervous??? The urgency of it. Granted - it needs fixing - but the last time we had to do something RIGHT NOW or the world was going to come to an end..... was the first big bailout under Bush's reign. The one where we handed out billions of dollars with no accountability - PLUS it was loaded with a mind-boggling array of PORK :rant: :nono:
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#35
ibofightback Wrote:I'm not going to bother checking the "facts" of that opinion piece, but it's interesting that you complain that the rich are paying all the tax money while simultaneously complaining if taxes might be increased on the middle class Confusedcratch:

Anyone, the thrust of the piece I 100% agree with - your medical malpractice system needs reform. Indeed, I think your whole culture of "sue 'em" is I think very destructive.

This is exactly what needs to be done. Although it wouldn't directly address the uninsured...it would be a HUGE step in the right direction to lowering the current premiums in the private sector, both for malpractice insurance for doctors as well as coverage for people. The healthcare the US provides is some of the best in the world, not to mention the innovation and technologies that happen here. So there has to be a way to reform it, without throwing the entire thing out of the window.

The Baucus bill will still leave 25 million people uninsured, by their estimates. Now, if you drop the illegal immigrants from the dems numbers (not sure which estimate the Baucus bill works off from), that is projected to be right now 30 million uninsured, so with that bill we would be covering 5 million people? Or do you think there are plans to actually cover the criminal immigrants that reside in our country currently? Since the democrats have turned down a couple amendments to have very specific language restricting coverage as well as providing proof, I think is a tell tale sign. Same goes for government covered abortions.
It is only through labor and painful effort, by grim energy and resolute courage, that we move on to better things. --Roosevelt
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#36
The 30 million figure does not include illegal immigrants
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#37
ibofightback Wrote:The 30 million figure does not include illegal immigrants

Ok, so the Baucus bill will only insure 5 million additional people? It says there will still be 25 million uninsured.
It is only through labor and painful effort, by grim energy and resolute courage, that we move on to better things. --Roosevelt
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#38
I assume the 25 million includes illegal immigrants. All the numbers add up then.

Go read the bill and some other sites, TB2IBO! Doesn't effect me in the least so I'm not that interested to be honest
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#39
ibofightback Wrote:Doesn't effect me in the least so I'm not that interested to be honest


So I'm curious - maybe jealous?? What do you have for health care?? Can you opt to go to the very best facility - or do you go where instructed?

I've mentioned my "Bionic Hip" before - I was able to go to the BEST Ortho Surgeon on the East Coast (Baltimore) to get an experimental (at that time) resurfacing device. My friends in Canada didn't have that luxury, for example, unless they drove into the USA or went overseas and paid cash.
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#40
Blue Cross group blasts reform bill
By Eric Zimmermann and Jeffrey Young - 10/14/09 04:12 PM ET
Premiums will rise up to 50 percent for individual policies and 19 percent for small group plans if healthcare reform passes, a new report released by a major health industry trade group claims.

Sponsored by the Blue Cross Blue Shield Association (BCBSA) and conducted by Oliver Wyman Inc., the report faults reform legislation for lacking a strong individual mandate. Requiring healthy Americans to purchase reform would help offset costs for the millions of people with health problems who would purchase insurance policies under the new system, the study finds.

"Requiring insurers to guarantee issue coverage regardless of pre-existing conditions — without an effective mandate — means that people can wait to purchase coverage until they need it, causing premiums to increase for most new purchasers," the report claims.

The new study comes just days after a similar report from America's Health Insurance Plans (AHIP), which said premiums would rise up to $4,000 more than if no legislation were passed.

The BCBSA study finds that premiums in the individual insurance market will rise by 50 percent after five years of enacting reform. That translates into $1,500 for individuals and $3,300 for families.

Those who receive coverage from "small group plans" — usually through small businesses — could see premiums rise 19 percent after five years. That could result in 2.5 million fewer people receiving coverage from small businesses, the study claims.


http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-r...egislation
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