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Where are all the 21st century Amway critics?
#1
Deb Wrote:I've been trying to "date" some of the stuff I read: today, Joe Cool posted a 2 yr old letter from a woman who sounded terrified to speak out against the abuse of her upline. She said she had been in Amway 12 years ago - which puts her in the early-to-mid 90's - which IMO is the heyday of AMO abuse. The fact that anyone made money off the systems was still hush-hush; and the "Old-School Kingpins" were still in control She didn't mention what AMO she and her husband were in.


(split from another thread)

I've noticed this for a couple of years now - there's virtually NO new "Amway Critics" with actual experience. WKAC (well know amway critics) JoeCool and Scott Larsen seem to have little to talk about except trying to dig up gossip on little ol' me, and JoeCool spends an awful lot of time reposting posts like the one above - a 2 yr old post from somebody with an experience well over a decade ago.

When you encounter "new" posts critical of Amway, it's nearly entirely from people whose posts are based not on personal experience, but on what they read on the 'net.

Have we "won"?

And by "won" I don't mean won against the critics, though that's kind of part of it, I mean "won" against the type of stuff that caused the rep problems in the first place. Clearly it's still an issue in some places, as evidenced by the thread where I took Deb's quote, but really you find very very few criticisms from people that have actual experience within the last 5 years. The only group that seemed to generate much was TEAM, and even then it very little.

Now, before "critics" try and take credit for it, I think actually it's got more to do with the fact that virtually all the criticism originated within one LOS and it's offshoots. Groups like IC, N21, eFinity, MMP etc have generated almost no online criticism from people with actual experience. A large part of the "change" is perhaps they've all grown significantly while the "problem" groups have shrunk (or disappeared ala TEAM).

Having said that, I think some groups that used to generate criticism have also changed quite a lot. WWDB used to create a lot of critics - but it seems not to anymore, and from Bridgett's reports it's running along pretty fine. BWW and Yager still seem to be generating some complaints (not least from me!) but nothing like those from the 90s, they've clearly made some changes.

This has to all be considered in the context that in the 90s internet usage was quite low, whereas in the 21st century it's incredibly easy to get online and start whining. But there's almost nothing new!

:clapping: :clapping: :clapping:
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#2
ibofightback Wrote:Have we "won"?

And by "won" I don't mean won against the critics, though that's kind of part of it, I mean "won" against the type of stuff that caused the rep problems in the first place.


I'm picturing the "bad stuff" as being like a Forest Fire: it's 90% extinguished, but there are little pockets of fire that still need to be doused. The situation with the young man I've referenced before shows that there's a few "skunks in the woodpile" in WWDB - and I suspect that holds true for other AMOs as well. But as someone who has been on the critics' forums for a decade - I definitely see a BIG downturn in the number of fresh-but-angry posters on those forums.

And I'll say it again - the SMART IBO doesn't dismiss past abuse as the whining of disgruntled losers or whatever derogatory term you want.... but acknowledges it happened and then explains why THEY are different. And a word of warning for those who are in overseas markets - if the "old school" AMO ways are prevalent over there - they can expect the same kind of backlash, too. I've always heard that "happy customers tell one other person about their good experience - but ANGRY customers will tell ten".
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#3
Maybe one contributing reason that there are fewer critics in the US is because there are fewer ibos. After factoring for inflation and different sales tracking (estimated retail versus distributor cost), the US market is probably 50-60 percent the size it was during the late 90s.

So the fact is that the US market has shrunk this century means that fewer ibos have gotten in and fewer have quit.
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#4
MichMan Wrote:Maybe one contributing reason that there are fewer critics in the US is because there are fewer ibos. After factoring for inflation and different sales tracking (estimated retail versus distributor cost), the US market is probably 50-60 percent the size it was during the late 90s.


I think that may have contributed, but I think any decrease in IBOs happened before the late the 90s. Furthermore I suspect the changeover to Quixtar may have caused a drop in sales but an overall increase in numbers.

Quote:So the fact is that the US market has shrunk this century means that fewer ibos have gotten in and fewer have quit.

TEAM (and TIF) exodus aside, I don't think there's been that much change this century.

So, I think there may have been a contribution, but it would have been more than outweighed by the increasing ubiquitousness of the internet and the ease of publicly complaining.
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#5
I found a source that said North America had 750,000 IBOS in 1998. That's lower than the 830,000 I estimated a few years back for Quixtar in 2003, using the Platinum Index.
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#6
ibofightback Wrote:I found a source that said North America had 750,000 IBOS in 1998. That's lower than the 830,000 I estimated a few years back for Quixtar in 2003, using the Platinum Index.


Yours or mine Tongue Tongue

To Michman - even if there were 10 IBOs in all of N America - if one of 'em got lied to by their upline....wouldn't we still hear about it??

Deb
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#7
ibofightback Wrote:it would have been more than outweighed by the increasing ubiquitousness of the internet and the ease of publicly complaining.


No doubt.

In the internet age, every Diamond with a loose tongue is one hour away from being memorialized on YouTube.
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#8
Deb, I am sure things are getting better. The sunlight has come out and there are few places to hide.

I am just saying that one reason (one of many reasons) for fewer critics is that there are fewer ibos.
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#9
MichMan Wrote:I am just saying that one reason (one of many reasons) for fewer critics is that there are fewer ibos.


And I'm just saying that last time I looked 830,000 is not "fewer" than 750,000.
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#10
ibofightback Wrote:
MichMan Wrote:I am just saying that one reason (one of many reasons) for fewer critics is that there are fewer ibos.


And I'm just saying that last time I looked 830,000 is not "fewer" than 750,000.


Oh, I am sure he will explain how it is.

Just hang on.
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