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Bo Short, Ty Tribble et.al sued for a million dollars
#31
ibofightback Wrote:Well, I think hearing about what Amway does in their local community is good, and it enhances their reputation when people know about it, and by extension enhances the IBO.


To my knowledge, there are no "Mary Kay Hospitals" or "Avon Arenas"....or God forbid "Mona Vie Museum" (where's a Puking Smiley when you need one?) Amway is indeed a wonderfully successful and generous Corporation. And they don't limit themselves to Grand Rapids - their help has extended all over the world. It just doesn't always have the name Amway/DeVos/VanAndel plastered all over it.
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#32
Deb Wrote:BUT - the Amway Founders immerse themselves neck-deep in politics and religion. To a sometimes scary level. I will spare the details, assuming Michman has already pointed a few things out....LOL!! Even though I completely believe that the big R&P have no place in business, I can see where the Bible-thumping politically assertive Big Pins got their start


It's the nature of networking that groups will tend to reflect the beliefs of their leaders. DeVos & Van Andel are/were both devout Christians and devout Republicans, their networks would have reflected that. Contrary to some we could mention however, they never closed the doors or belitted people with different beliefs - the right to differ has been a part of Amway for a long time. Perhaps even from the beginning? Even when they've had Republican US Presidents speak at seminars, from what I understand (and in some cases have seen) those speeches have not been overtly political in nature, and have restricted themselves to issues directly pertinent to Amway.

One cannot say the same for Bob McEwen's talks.
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#33
Deb, I agree with you about all of the other people who have helped to build Grand Rapids. And I have tried to make that point. But people should know that just because the DeVos or Van Andel name is on a building does not mean that they paid for the whole thing. I have done my fair share of fundraising. And I know that the DeVos or Van Andel gifts are used as seed money to get a project started. They may give the first $1 million of a $10 million project. This 'downpayment' makes it easier for the finance committees to ask $10,000, $25,000, $50,000 from others because potential donors have the confidence that the project to move forward to completion. The majority of the money comes from the commoners (ok... maybe those who give $20,000 are not as common as most of us. But you get the idea)

Bridgett, first of all, I agree with you regarding the politics comments.

I have suggested more than once in the last year that this forum should voluntarily abide by Amway's accredidation guidelines regarding religion and politics. But this is ibofb's forum and he makes the rules. Months after my suggestion last fall, he at least separated the forums at YOUR suggestion. I thought that was a good idea and I said so.

Which reminds me of a story I posted about the Van Andels. Something in it was peripherally related to politics (inheritance tax or something like that). I received a private warning from IBOFB. I private messaged him back asking if he preferred that politics be avoided, so that I could comply with his rules. He messaged me back that political stories or comments are still ok, but it should just have been put into another section of the fourm.

So, I don't make the rules and I am willing to abide by his guidelines regarding regarding politics or religion. So far he has allowed and even participated in nearly every lively discussion. (not just with me. But also with TBIBO and others)

Regarding the Amway in Michigan posts...

Amway has great reputation in West Michigan for many reasons. The first reason is that they walk the walk when it comes to Free Enterprise and conservative values. So if people want to know what this business is about, it would help to know about the founders. They are not the greedy corporate that people read about in the papers or the robber barrons that children read in their textbooks. Their religion has taught them the principle that 'to those who have been given, much is expected.' And I think they live up to that well. There is no place where that is more evident than in Grand Rapids. I hope that ibos can (and do) get encouraged from the great reputation that Amway and the founders enjoy in the Grand Rapids area.

But in the field Amway also has a poor reputation, and for many good reasons. (but that too is for another thread)
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#34
MichMan, it's not the posting of political and/or religious topics that concerns me, at least not if they're in the appropriate section. What concerns me is when it becomes clear that the poster has no interest in actually discussing the topic, but merely wishes to stir controversy. That is trolling and is unacceptable.

So, I think your posts on the founding families and Amway's contributions around Michigan, and even their sailing escapades are quite acceptable and relevant. With other posts though, in my opinion you often troll and create false controversy, as you did in this thread.

Now, I may be wrong and you're acting sincerely, but as the forum owner and moderator I have to make decisions based on what I see and what is acceptable and what is not, and by it's nature that's going to be subjective - but in the end that's your problem to deal with, not mine.
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#35
But how does one do that?

I simply posted my two cents on this thread. (Not about politics. Not about religion.) I readily agreed with you more than once that six mlms in six years is mlm hopping. But I also said that I think that the stereotype is also over used. That was it. Period.

All my first comment was meant to be was two cents (not $20.00!!!) I clarified my comments and told you and aj, that I was not starting a flamewar. And I tried several times to politely discontinue to conversation because I saw where the conversation was going. Then I am warned off for not responding.

The problem seems to be this:

If I continue in a conversation, answering your questions and providing reasons and context, I am accused of being argumentative. If I don't, I get a board warning for "not responding to what others say."

(And I am not being argumentative. Just asking)
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#36
MichMan Wrote:But how does one do that?

I simply posted my two cents on this thread. (Not about politics. Not about religion.) I readily agreed with you more than once that six mlms in six years is mlm hopping. But I also said that I think that the stereotype is also over used. That was it. Period.


No, that's not all you did. You went on to claim -

"But I also remember the term "mlm-jumper" to describe people like Jack and Effie Reid, Randy Haugen, Don Wilson, TEAM people, Billy Florence, Fred Harteis, etc."

and when challenged went out to provide "evidence" that didn't support your case at all - indeed, it was another thread where you raised a controversy that didn't exist, completely twisting what was said and turning the thread from a conversation on one thing into a complete different, and argumentative, one.

You may have just misremembered - in which case you can just say so and we move on, happens all the time.

Quote:If I continue in a conversation, answering your questions and providing reasons and context, I am accused of being argumentative. If I don't, I get a board warning for "not responding to what others say."

The problem is MichMan that again and again and again you say something and when challenged you DON'T provide authentic "reasons and context". You regularly appear to just make stuff up, like the idea above that people accused the Reid's et´.al. of being "mlm jumpers". Your "reasons and context" don't support what you say at all. This happens over and over in discussions with you. I can't even begin to count the amount have times you've claimed I said something I never said. And it's not limited to this forum - I saw you do the same on Doug Wead's blog with regards I think Bridgett. You just make stuff up, claim someone says something when they didn't, then provide "reasons and context" that don't back you up at all, and just continue on your merry way, with complete disregard for the truth. :nono:

One could perfectly reasonably conclude that you're doing so purely to rile people up and start fights - and you succeed. You most certainly have succeeded with me more than a few times. :banghead:
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#37
ibofightback Wrote:It's the nature of networking that groups will tend to reflect the beliefs of their leaders. DeVos & Van Andel are/were both devout Christians and devout Republicans, their networks would have reflected that. Contrary to some we could mention however, they never closed the doors or belitted people with different beliefs - the right to differ has been a part of Amway for a long time. Perhaps even from the beginning?

Oh - absolutely!! Everyone was warmly welcomed.

Even when they've had Republican US Presidents speak at seminars, from what I understand (and in some cases have seen) those speeches have not been overtly political in nature, and have restricted themselves to issues directly pertinent to Amway.

One cannot say the same for Bob McEwen's talks.

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#38
Hey is this thread not reserved for Ty and Bo? Can you imagine some of the people that followed these 2 from the start? I mean what do you say to them ? Hey John this new mlm looks pretty good to me. Forget what I said about the last 5. Oh have you read my book on how to pick the right company?
Big Grin
While you were watching tv or blogging someone YOU know got in Captain Amway's business.
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#39
Captain Amway Wrote:Hey is this thread not reserved for Ty and Bo? Can you imagine some of the people that followed these 2 from the start? I mean what do you say to them ? Hey John this new mlm looks pretty good to me. Forget what I said about the last 5. Oh have you read my book on how to pick the right company?


Oh, and did you know that I (Ty) am "the number one blogger on networking marketing?" Yes, a vague, meaningless, and an-impossible-to-confirm-and-impossible-to-refute claim to make, but hey...who cares? Smile

Oh, and did you know that I (Bo) am "the only person I know that's ever actually gone to the office of the Federal Trade Commision?" Yes, I only know maybe 1/10,000 of 1% of people, and a visit to the FTC isn't all that unique, but hey...who cares? Smile
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#40
Bo said that?
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