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Bo Short, Ty Tribble et.al sued for a million dollars
#11
Regarding MichMan's last comment on page 1:

It was a shock to me to hear that these legends in the Amway business quit or were terminated. I think it was within the same year that the Haugens spoke at our summer conference and were terminated from Quixtar. (I was a little disappointed that Randy gave the same talk that's on his classic tape on building depth that goes back to the pre-Quixtar days. That made me a little skeptical about how much new growth his business was experiencing.) In the case of TEAM we may have been critical of their decision, especially the decision to file the infamous lawsuit. However, I don't recall that we accused the aforementioned of MLM-jumping.

You're right MichMan, Short and Tribble are in a different league than the TEAM-affiliated people. My point is that we never put them in the same league.
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#12
I wasn't trying to start a flame war.

In the cases of the Harteis' and the Reids, they seem to have left the business according to the rules. I don't think they were part of any lawsuits against the corp and it was never stated that Amway was suing them. Neither did they go online and post emotional and detailed greivances against the company.

If a pastor, college president, etc. leaves after a 20-30 years of faithful service, most people would wish him well and maybe throw a him a party. Same would be true in many other industries.

I think that Amway is large enough and should be secure enough to handle it better when people leave the company for what they believe to be greener pastures.

So why not be happy that a couple in their retirement years got a new dream, gassed up the car and started driving the miles again... even if it was in another business?

(Doug Wead reported that Jack Reid died. Prayers for the family. But like I said, it was at least encouraging to see that he went out being active and doing something he loved. Hope I go out while I'm still in motion.)
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#13
MichMan, I agree with AJ. I don't recall anyone, let alone anyone on this board, referring to the TEAM associated folk as "MLM Jumpers". You are creating false controversy (again).

As for the "years of faithful service" party - I doubt you'd find too many companies throwing a party for someone who has either (a) been fired for unethical behaviour and/or (b) quit in protest at company changes and/or © moved to a competitor.
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#14
ibofightback Wrote:MichMan, I agree with AJ. I don't recall anyone, let alone anyone on this board, referring to the TEAM associated folk as "MLM Jumpers". You are creating false controversy (again).


Apoligies. The term used was "MLM HOPPERS." Here's a thread on YOUR forum about MLM hopping right after TEAM announced they were having with MonaVie.*

Quote:MLM Hoppers
by WestIBO » Tue Nov 11, 2008 6:08 pm

I came across a fantastic thread on a site talking about MLMs and the recent growth of some recent companies (including Mona Vie). A person made a great post about people who jump from one company to another.... Also, what does that mean for Mona Vie when those "product hoppers" have decided that they are finished with Mona Vie and jump into the next "big" idea with their network of thousands? What becomes of Mona Vie then?

http://www.amwaytalk.com/post4470.html?h...jump#p4470




(* I know, you will say that WestIBO does not specifically mention TEAM when he uses the "MLM Hopper" label and posted that thread. But this is an Amway board. TEAM was associated with Amway. TEAM had just left for MonaVie. There was great discussion at the same time about TEAM and MonaVie. And if WestIBO was not referring to former Amway TEAM Diamonds, why post it on an Amway forum? And who were the "hoppers" to which he was referring?)
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#15
Read the whole post MichMan, instead of just selectively quoting. WestIBO is talking about a discussion on another board ! A generic MLM board. WestIBO raised the topic in the "anything goes" section on this site and didn't even mention TEAM. You were the one who replied defending TEAM, even though neither TEAM nor Amway was even mentioned in the post! Indeed, WestIBO even explictly mentioned a number of companies - Xango, Melaleuca and Nuskin ... but again, NOT Amway or TEAM.

You (as you often do) tried to manufacture a controversy that didn't exist.
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#16
The whole rest of the "MLM Hopper" thread on your AMWAY forum was about TEAM. (I don't recall another mlm even being discussed as much in the entire 9 pages)

If I recall, one poster said on the mlm hopper thread: "How long before TEAM takes it's dog and pony show to another mlm?" To which I responded that one change every 15-30 years should not be considered unusual.

Regardless, I think we can agree that 6 mlms in 6 years qualifies as mlm hopping and deserves criticism.

And one change every 15-30 years does not.

************

edit:

And I will say this and be done with the conversation. I think that the term "mlm hopper" is over used by leaders in Amway as a way to keep people from exploring other options in the industry. And I also believe that people who do jump from one to another (like six in six years) give the industry a bad name.

And there is nothing wrong with someone leaving one company and going to another if done properly. It happens everyday in every type of business. Lawyers do it. Accountants do it. Salespeople. Pastors. College professors. etc.
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#17
MichMan Wrote:The whole rest of the "MLM Hopper" thread on your AMWAY forum was about TEAM. (I don't recall another mlm even being discussed as much in the entire 9 pages)


Yes - because YOU changed the topic to TEAM - you successfully created a controversy that did not exist.

MichMan Wrote:If I recall, one poster said on the mlm hopper thread: "How long before TEAM takes it's dog and pony show to another mlm?" To which I responded that one change every 15-30 years should not be considered unusual.


Given that other "large pins" who have left Amway, such as Bo Short, have rarely lasted long in one company before moving to another, this is a perfectly reasonable question. It's not calling them "mlm hoppers", it's wondering if that's what they will become.

MichMan Wrote:Regardless, I think we can agree that 6 mlms in 6 years qualifies as mlm hopping and deserves criticism.

And one change every 15-30 years does not.


So why try to claim people are saying it does?

MichMan Wrote:And I will say this and be done with the conversation. I think that the term "mlm hopper" is over used by leaders in Amway as a way to keep people from exploring other options in the industry. And I also believe that people who do jump from one to another (like six in six years) give the industry a bad name.


I personally don't recall ever hearing the term outside this site.

MichMan Wrote:And there is nothing wrong with someone leaving one company and going to another if done properly. It happens everyday in every type of business. Lawyers do it. Accountants do it. Salespeople. Pastors. College professors. etc.


Sure, but given the nature of network marketing, it's extremely difficult, if not impossible, to "do it properly" in a way that does not cause damage to others, both those who leave and those who remain.
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#18
ibofightback Wrote:
MichMan Wrote:The whole rest of the "MLM Hopper" thread on your AMWAY forum was about TEAM. (I don't recall another mlm even being discussed as much in the entire 9 pages)


Yes - because YOU changed the topic to TEAM - you successfully created a controversy that did not exist.


I was responding to WestIBO's specific reference to Mona Vie's "product hoppers" with "their network of thousands." Other than the Amway Diamonds who had just left Amway, what other Mona Vie distributors had just "hopped in" with "networks of thousands"? How could anyone on this Amway forum believe that this VERY SPECIFIC reference was meant to EXCLUDE TEAM diamonds who had just "hopped" to MonaVie with "networks of thousands." Confusedcratch: Confusedcratch:

ibofightback Wrote:
MichMan Wrote:If I recall, one poster said on the mlm hopper thread: "How long before TEAM takes it's dog and pony show to another mlm?" To which I responded that one change every 15-30 years should not be considered unusual.


Given that other "large pins" who have left Amway, such as Bo Short, have rarely lasted long in one company before moving to another, this is a perfectly reasonable question. It's not calling them "mlm hoppers", it's wondering if that's what they will become.


Of course, it WAS a reference to TEAM "hopping" from Amway to MonaVie and possibly to another mlm.

ibofightback Wrote:
MichMan Wrote:And I will say this and be done with the conversation. I think that the term "mlm hopper" is over used by leaders in Amway as a way to keep people from exploring other options in the industry. And I also believe that people who do jump from one to another (like six in six years) give the industry a bad name.


I personally don't recall ever hearing the term outside this site.


Here are 51,000 references for "mlm hopper."
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=mlm+hopper&aq=f&oq=&aqi=">http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=ml ... f&oq=&aqi=</a><!-- m -->
Here are 95,00 references for "mlm jumper."
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=mlm+jumper&btnG=Search&aq=f&oq=&aqi=">http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=ml ... f&oq=&aqi=</a><!-- m -->


ibofightback Wrote:
MichMan Wrote:And there is nothing wrong with someone leaving one company and going to another if done properly. It happens everyday in every type of business. Lawyers do it. Accountants do it. Salespeople. Pastors. College professors. etc.


Sure, but given the nature of network marketing, it's extremely difficult, if not impossible, to "do it properly" in a way that does not cause damage to others, both those who leave and those who remain.


As far as I know, the Reid's and Harteis' did it properly. Sure there may be negative consequences when a top sales person leaves, or a college president or top lawyer. But that is business. The question here is whether Diamonds leave according to the terms and conditions in their contract with Amway, not whether Amway as a whole suffers.

I don't want to get into a flame war. I just don't think Amway people should automatically classify those who leave for another opportunity as "mlm hoppers," unless they actually are.

You don't think that it happens. I think it sometimes does.

Let's not make a bigger deal about this than it is.
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#19
MichMan Wrote:I was responding to WestIBO's specific reference to Mona Vie's "product hoppers" with "their network of thousands." Other than the Amway Diamonds who had just left Amway, what other Mona Vie distributors had just "hopped in" with "networks of thousands"? How could anyone on this Amway forum believe that this VERY SPECIFIC reference was meant to EXCLUDE TEAM diamonds who had just "hopped" to MonaVie with "networks of thousands." Confusedcratch: Confusedcratch:


For crying out loud, he was asking a generic question. From what I understand a number of MLM "leaders" have moved to MonaVie. One I can recall mking the MLM "news" was Randy Schroeder moving from Agel.

He asked a generic MLM question, in the "anything goes" section, and didn't even mention TEAM or Amway

Quote:Of course, it WAS a reference to TEAM "hopping" from Amway to MonaVie and possibly to another mlm.

That was a reference to TEAM, but the original post wasn't. And that reference didn't call them "mlm hoppers", it just wondered how long until they became MLM hoppers. What's more, that response referring to TEAM was because YOU raised them in the topic, not anybody else.

Quote:Here are 51,000 references for "mlm hopper."
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=mlm+hopper&aq=f&oq=&aqi=">http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=ml ... f&oq=&aqi=</a><!-- m -->
Here are 95,00 references for "mlm jumper."
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=mlm+jumper&btnG=Search&aq=f&oq=&aqi=">http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=ml ... f&oq=&aqi=</a><!-- m -->

So? What does that have to do with whether I'd heard the term elsewhere, or whether people on this forum had called TEAM "MLM Hoppers".

MichMan Wrote:As far as I know, the Reid's and Harteis' did it properly. Sure there may be negative consequences when a top sales person leaves, or a college president or top lawyer. But that is business. The question here is whether Diamonds leave according to the terms and conditions in their contract with Amway, not whether Amway as a whole suffers.


Seriously? You don't think a major MLM leader leaving has any negative effect on their upline or downline? Sorry, I don't believe you.

Quote:I don't want to get into a flame war. I just don't think Amway people should automatically classify those who leave for another opportunity as "mlm hoppers," unless they actually are.

I agree.

Quote:You don't think that it happens. I think it sometimes does.

Fine. So why do you try to back your "thought" up with things that don't back it up at all?

Quote:Let's not make a bigger deal about this than it is.

What, by say, claiming people said things they never said?

Indeed.
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#20
Trollish behaviour always ruins a good party.

:glare:
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