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GM's New Car Made With US Government
#11
Washington is not running the auto companies?

Imagine that the Obama administration took controling intrest of Amway, forced out investors, forced it into bankruptcy, forced creditors to take pennies on the dollar, fired Doug DeVos and Steve Van Andel and then terminated worst performing ibos (25 percent of all ibos).

Would anybody believe that the government was not in control of the company?
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#12
That's not exactly a fair picture of what's been going on, MichMan.
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#13
Maybe not a complete picture.

Because the government would also be telling Amway what kinds of soap it could and could not manufacture and would be involved in limiting the compensation of it's top producers. And when Amway offered to pay pay the government money early so it could get out from the government controls, the feds would not allow it until all of the changes were made.
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#14
now you're truly being ridiculous. Or do you really interpret reality that way?

That aside, you keep neglecting to mention perhaps the most important factor in your analogy .... that the alternative is that Amway closes down, 13,000 employees lose there jobs, and millions of IBOs lose their businesses.

If I was going to lend billions to Amway to keep them operational, I'd damn well want a say in how they ran things.
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#15
But it also brings us back to the original problem.

Why should Amway get the money? How would you feel if you were the owner of a vitamin company like Shaklee? Or a make-up company like Mary Kay?

The government using your tax dollars to prop up your competition.

If Amway was run as poorly as GM, which its not, they should never have gotten the money to begin with.
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#16
If I owned Shaklee and Amway going out of business meant that many of my suppliers and dealer networks would also go out of business, threatening my business and perhaps even the entire US economy, then I'd absolutely support government intervention propping them up until a buyer (or other solution)could be found ... but there's no way in the world I'd simply want them to be loaned the money and allowed to keep doing the same bad business they were doing before.

This is one of the "problems" of extremely large companies and the modern economy. Their downfall can have ramifactions far outside their own owners and employees.
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#17
ibofightback Wrote:The task force has input on what happens with government money, as they should, and as any other unsecured creditor would want. It's also supposed to only for a defined period I believe.

HAHAHAAA... "Defined Period"....hahaha...Want a definition of that. Ask any of the states that have "temporary" toll roads to pay for things. The tolls were only suppose to be there for a set period of time, to simply pay for the cost of construction. Don't see many tolls being taken down, yet the costs have been paid for 3-4-5-6 times over.
It is only through labor and painful effort, by grim energy and resolute courage, that we move on to better things. --Roosevelt
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#18
Isn't the chrysler deal 9 weeks or something?

Frankly I find the fact you folk think the government *wants* to run these companies verging on paranoia ... nope, on second thought there's nothing "verging" about it ....
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#19
Here is why companies like Amway will not need a government bailout, and why companies like GM don't deserve one.

Living in Michigan, I have gotten to know many people who have worked for both Amway and GM.

My Amway neighbors lived normal middle class lives. They worked hard. They received their 2-4 weeks of vacation per year. When I toured Amway's factories the employees were working hard as you would expect in factory of a any billion dollar company. They retired at the age that you would expect from any large company.

My GM neighbor was quite different. He would go to his boss every summer and ask to be laid off so he could work around his farm. He would received 70 percent of his pay while "laid off" in addition to his 10 weeks of paid vacation. He retired at 50.

My college friend went to General Motors Institution (GMI) and learned how GM operates. He toured GM factories and saw that they had tents set up so that the employees could sleep after their quotas were acheived. Many of the "workers" would be done for the day in 3-4 hours and spend the rest of the day playing cards, watching TV or sleeping in the tents.

A relative worked at a GM factory in college. He was eager to make a good impression so he could go back the next summer and work. Unfortunately, he was too good of a worker. He was beating quota by 3-4 times. The union thugs took him into the bathroom and told him that if he did not slow down that his own personal health would be in danger. After receiving a couple of more threats, he decided to slow down his production.

And let's not forget the crane operator. He makes triple union wages. He is the only one trained to use the crane. They need him only a couple of hours per week. Union rules prohibit him from doing any other job. So he sits in his work station with a TV and junk food waiting for a call that they need him to move something.

And the GM people I know have all retired at near 50 years old with a healthy pension and benefits.

And the government wants MY money to bail them out?
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#20
Just to be clear here, in normal circumstances I think GM should be allowed to die. Unfortunately these are not normal circumstances.
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