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Why people critize systems
#1
Over in the "is this Amway?" topic sy2yp asked a question:

sy2yp Wrote:Pardon for droppin in abruptly,

But in my, my upline & LOS & system's opinion you should go for the Business Volume a.k.a PV - in the case mentioned by amthrax.

But, Honestly why are system's being hammered so much??
Maybe this is a stupid question, but being in N21 for an appriciable amount of time makes me really curious. And my folks have been associated with N21 longer than me, so I'm really curious about the hammering systems take...
and maybe :offtopic:


This is a very understandable question. My answer to this would be that some people and some LOA's/systems lost focus on the mail goal - making money in Amway. They got sidetracked into various things that ultimately produced very negative result. For instance things a few negative things that I have personally seen:

Marriage break up as the couple sold their house to fund their Amway business (tools purchases), and end of the day they ended up with no group and no house.
People pressured into purchasing very large volumes of products, so much that they look years and year to eat through all the protein bars that they were told to stock up on.
People investing US$2 million with upline in other business from which no return
Manipulation to spend large volumes of money on tools, and not being honest that money spent was lining pockets of upline
Emotionally manipulation to make people sign up and stay in
Being deceptive about the business to prospects

I think that you get the general idea.... hence people like myself who have seen these things are rather negative about systems.

However the good news is that Amway seems to have woken up to LOA/system abuses and are showing leadership by helping some LOA/System change, showing others the door, and being more proactive in training, more proactive in traditional advertising. Thus the "rotten" systems/LOA are being pruned or helped change.

So the business is heading in the right direction and you can build with confidence that this issues shouldn't be in your upline.
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#2
Rich DeVos recently authored a book with 10 "power phrases."

Two of the top ten were 1) I was wrong 2) I am sorry

Amway and certain LOAs should try these two phrases regarding the system abuses allowed in the business. I think they would work better than the current operating phrases: "We did nothing wrong...but it won't happen again."

"I'm wrong" and "I'm sorry" would go a long way to moving this company forward, especially in the sagging US market.
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#3
I'm shocked this thread hasn't taken off. Usually if the word "system" is in the heading people can't resist giving their two cents. So I'll go ahead and throw my hat in the ring.

I think the most important statement stickshark made was "some people and some LOAs/Systems". One of the most frustrating things to deal with is a critic suggesting that ALL systems are bad based on THEIR experiences. And drawing conclusions that are biased and off-base all the while ignoring that countless IBOs who have had a positive experience with the business, including the training system they use.

I certainly think that some major steps have been taken in the right direction in this regard. But you'll always have someone who doesn't have the best motives, or rubs someone the wrong way, or is flat out dishonest. But at least I acknowledge that progress is being made.
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#4
TWS Wrote:I think the most important statement stickshark made was "some people and some LOAs/Systems". One of the most frustrating things to deal with is a critic suggesting that ALL systems are bad based on THEIR experiences. And drawing conclusions that are biased and off-base all the while ignoring that countless IBOs who have had a positive experience with the business, including the training system they use.

Good comment. This is so true even more so now. Because of accreditation, all IBOs Platinum or above have to go through the accreditation process to receive bonuses. Or at least that's how I read the information pack. So, whether you're a small group or a larger group, the term Line of Association may start going the way of the dinosaur. OR it could go quite opposite and generate an even bigger emphasis of association, but it will be in smaller groups.

Either way, you are right in that it's usually one or two people who just got rubbed the wrong way.
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#5
joebrueske Wrote:This is so true even more so now. Because of accreditation, all IBOs Platinum or above have to go through the accreditation process to receive bonuses. Or at least that's how I read the information pack. So, whether you're a small group or a larger group, the term Line of Association may start going the way of the dinosaur. OR it could go quite opposite and generate an even bigger emphasis of association, but it will be in smaller groups.


Actually, if the Platinum is a part of an LOA, then the LOA, as a whole, gets accredited (or not--that's why we saw some Platinums and above seeking accreditation independent of their LOAs b/c they felt that their LOA would not pass muster. And thus creating their own LOA b/c of this "breaking away".)
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#6
TWS Wrote:I'm shocked this thread hasn't taken off. Usually if the word "system" is in the heading people can't resist giving their two cents. So I'll go ahead and throw my hat in the ring.

I think the most important statement stickshark made was "some people and some LOAs/Systems". One of the most frustrating things to deal with is a critic suggesting that ALL systems are bad based on THEIR experiences. And drawing conclusions that are biased and off-base all the while ignoring that countless IBOs who have had a positive experience with the business, including the training system they use.

I certainly think that some major steps have been taken in the right direction in this regard. But you'll always have someone who doesn't have the best motives, or rubs someone the wrong way, or is flat out dishonest. But at least I acknowledge that progress is being made.


In addition, some people and some LOAs/Systems have changed since that bad experience someone had say, a dozen years ago.

I can say that my LOA is not the same as it was when it started in the late 70s. They did wear big Eagle belt buckles, they did smash alarm clocks at their retirment parties, they did sing God Bless America at functions, they did wear "no-shows" as a badge of honor.

And I'm sure they did some of things, and other things in the 80s, 90s, and even early 00s.

The important word here is "did". Past tense. We are about to enter the 10s in less than 9 months. That's where my focus is. What is happening now. And what is going to happen.

It's based on the reality right now, and where I want to go, which determine my actions, not what happened even a year ago.

Life is moving way too fast for me to keep looking in the rearview mirror. The windshield is HUGE compared to that tiny mirror for a reason. Smile
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#7
Life is moving way too fast for me to keep looking in the rearview mirror. The windshield is HUGE compared to that tiny mirror for a reason.

Good one Bridgett, can I use that quote? :grin:
All it takes for the forces of evil to rule this world is for enough good people to do nothing.
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#8
Bridgett Wrote:And I'm sure they did some of things, and other things in the 80s, 90s, and even early 00s.

The important word here is "did". Past tense.


If all of the abuses were corrected by the early 00s, then why has it taken so long for LOAs to acheive accredidation?

Here are Amway's requirements for accredidation:

Criteria and Process

Independent Business Owners (IBOs) interested in pursuing accreditation apply to the program, and their applications are reviewed according to the following criteria:

Providing a professional development curriculum that includes business-building, product training, and personal development components.

Using professional development compensation plans that are transparent, written, and contractual.

Engaging in communications that reflect compliance with the IBO Communications Platform.

Demonstrating a commitment to best practices and ongoing education

Being in good standing and complying with Amway Global's Rules of Conduct.


As you know, many of the large LOAs did not acheive accredidation until Fall 2008.

When exactly did WWDB/BWW/InterNet/ etc acheive their accredidation?

Another question is this: which Amway's requirements were being ignored up until the time of accredidation?

And why did it take YEARS for these LOAs to come into compliance?
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#9
MichMan Wrote:
Bridgett Wrote:And I'm sure they did some of things, and other things in the 80s, 90s, and even early 00s.

The important word here is "did". Past tense.


If all of the abuses were corrected by the early 00s, then why has it taken so long for LOAs to acheive accredidation?

As you know, many of the large LOAs did not acheive accredidation until Fall 2008...

When exactly did WWDB/BWW/InterNet/ etc acheive their accredidation?

Another question is this: which Amway's requirements were being ignored up until the time of accredidation?

And why did it take YEARS for these LOAs to come into compliance?


As always, I cannot speak for ALL Systems. I do know though, speaking directly with the Corp., that the process of accreditation was a massive untertaking.

And they made it clear, upfront, even posting it on the original accreditation website,that the process could take up to TWO YEARS for even just ONE LOA to be approved.

And because being accredited didn't really mean anything to the general public (just like how most people don't understand why it's a good idea to seek a "certified" massage therapist or a "certified" personal trainer, rather than ones who aren't) there was no reason/incentive for LOAs to partake in such a process.

It wasn't until when bonus money was tied to accreditation that LOAs, essentially now had to partake, in the summer of 2007, that they started the arduous process.

So really the process took a little over a year, with most, if not all, being approved by September of 2008.

And the LOAs who chose not to comply, and therefore their bonus money now tied to such compliance and in now jeopardy, left...some more gracefully than others.
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#10
I understand that.

But other LOAs like Foley/Childers and Jodi Victor acheived accredidation years ago. So why did the large LOAs have to be forced into the process by threat of withholding bonus money?

What in the accredidation criteria was so objectionable by these LOAs? What practices were they continuing up until very recently that would have disqualified them for the Amway's accredidation process?
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