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MLM Hoppers
#81
Bridgett, I am aware that TEAM incorporated other lines of sponsorship in Amway. (A good friend of mine is in Bob Howard's group. They had just aligned with TEAM before the split.) I know Dexter and other LOAs were losing business to TEAM. Other diamond groups folded up their bsm system and decided to join forces with TEAM.

To me, the excessive bsm money is the root of the problem.

There were many innocent casualties on both sides. Both sides drew their guns and started shooting.

Any divorce of this magnitude would leave many hurt. The whole thing could have, and should have, been handled better by both sides. But there still would have been a LOT casualties either way.

(Sorry so choppy. I had to start and stop this post three times. Probably typos and grammar errors above but I gotta run)
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#82
ss3251 Wrote:TB 2 IBO,
I suggest you read the thread again, instead of telling me to.

1. Bridgett made a specific claim, I asked for an example, she provided something other than an example of what she claimed. You may wish to talk about her "premise", but that is simply skirting the fact that she was making a false, accusatory claim without providing any proof.

2. The issue of the IDS was an earlier part of this conversation/thread and if you go to beginning, you will see that the IDS was the beginning, being brought up in the very first post by WestIBO.


Look at what you just wrote. It was not Bridgett that brought up the IDS, nor did she reference it in her first threads. Westibo did and you brought it up to Bridgett.

Regardless you still haven't answered my question/concern.
It is only through labor and painful effort, by grim energy and resolute courage, that we move on to better things. --Roosevelt
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#83
ss3251 Wrote:Anybody, in any organization, whether diamond, platinum, booger pin or whatever, chose to leave Q* and join MV of their own free will. Nobody was forced to do anything. Orrin didn't "take" people with him. They chose to follow him of their own choosing. These people were not the property of their upline, or Amway, they were independent business owners who were free to make their own decision. You talk like the Amway Legal team, who called IBOs their cattle. Well, they are not. They are human beings who made their own decision to make their change. Each one had to personally weigh the consequences of either staying or leaving and make their own decision.

Also,
If you have legitimate proof of any "backroom deals" that went on, where anybody was offered any amount of money to influence their groups leave Q* to join MV with Orrin, then you better show it or stop making false accusations. False accusations like that have been made by Bridgett over and over, but she never has any proof of what she claims. It is perfectly clear her and others are very bitter, but you better be able to prove such accusations if you are going to make them!


I would agree with ss3251 here. People are free to do what they want. If they choose to go to MV with Orrin, that is there choice. Now whether that is an ethically or moral decision is up for debate and I choose not to.

ss3251, just because someone challenges you on something or thinks differently, doesn't mean they are bitter. You sound a bit like Obama.! :thumbsup:
It is only through labor and painful effort, by grim energy and resolute courage, that we move on to better things. --Roosevelt
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#84
TB 2 IBO Wrote:Look at what you just wrote. It was not Bridgett that brought up the IDS, nor did she reference it in her first threads. Westibo did and you brought it up to Bridgett.


Um... I don't believe I ever said she brought it up, my post was a reply to her reply that actually did contain the reference to the IDS we were discussing.

I also don't believe I ever saw a question from you directed at me.

Are you purposely trying to be so illogical in your comments?
 Reply
#85
TB 2 IBO Wrote:
ss3251 Wrote:Anybody, in any organization, whether diamond, platinum, booger pin or whatever, chose to leave Q* and join MV of their own free will. Nobody was forced to do anything. Orrin didn't "take" people with him. They chose to follow him of their own choosing. These people were not the property of their upline, or Amway, they were independent business owners who were free to make their own decision. You talk like the Amway Legal team, who called IBOs their cattle. Well, they are not. They are human beings who made their own decision to make their change. Each one had to personally weigh the consequences of either staying or leaving and make their own decision.

Also,
If you have legitimate proof of any "backroom deals" that went on, where anybody was offered any amount of money to influence their groups leave Q* to join MV with Orrin, then you better show it or stop making false accusations. False accusations like that have been made by Bridgett over and over, but she never has any proof of what she claims. It is perfectly clear her and others are very bitter, but you better be able to prove such accusations if you are going to make them!


I would agree with ss3251 here. People are free to do what they want. If they choose to go to MV with Orrin, that is there choice. Now whether that is an ethically or moral decision is up for debate and I choose not to.

ss3251, just because someone challenges you on something or thinks differently, doesn't mean they are bitter. You sound a bit like Obama.! :thumbsup:


I am glad to hear you agree with me, hopefully people will refrain from making such blatantly false accusations from now on.

Oh, and I don't have a problem when someone challenges me on something or simply has a different opinion. But I do have a problem when they make utterly false and malicious accusations. That is a sign to me that they are bitter!
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#86
WestIBO Wrote:I'm personally aware of two specific groups (500+ people in each of those teams) that were not downline to Orrin, who aligned with Orrin about 2.5 months prior to the messy split from Amway. The previous BSM provider was sad at the loss of his friends and I'm sure their BSM money, but he was still making a beautiful income from the Amway money on those groups (because they were in his downline and both "basically" front line). Those folks aligned with Orrin, believing that they were going to stay with Amway. They got blindsided when Team leaders had their Q businesses revoked by Amway. I know that one of those groups was in the 3rd month of Diamond qualification with Amway and that the other group had several brand new qualified Rubies and Sapphires in the weeks leading up to the split. It was their choice to leave, but they thought they were headed to a on "Online WalMart" not a berry juice. Initially, they were pretty bummed out.

Those were groups that Orrin did not have the PV volume of in Quixtar, but I know that they are both downline from Orrin in MV.

This helps me put another piece into the puzzle. About a year ago myself and some other IBOs were hanging out with our up-line Diamond in a Big Boy restaurant after an open hotel meeting. One of the IBOs asked about some of the former Amway leaders who were terminated by Quixtar in August 2007. So he told the story. I was a little surprised that he called Orrin Woodward a "snake". I thought that was too harsh--an over-the-top accusation. (I like and respect snakes. However, he was using a Biblical reference--"snake" meaning a liar, a manipulator, or cunning.) Later I learned that his Executive Diamond leg went with Woodward and Team. This was by far his largest North American leg. That's a big chunk of change to go down the gurgler. At the time of our restaurant discussion I didn't realize that my up-line Diamond had been so personally affected by the TEAM v. Quixtar dispute and the realignment of loyalties. No worries though. It's probably good for me. This may explain why my up-line Diamond is so eager to help me build my Amway Global business. He's got some major rebuilding to do.

Edit: Don't feel sorry for my up-line Diamond and his family. I just remembered that two Diamonds in that Executive Diamond leg stuck with him.
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#87
An 'immature hopping form' going from one home-based business to the other. I'm sure there are plenty of 'hoppers' out there and I honestly think there should be a support group for all of us recovering MLM-addicts! Heehee.
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