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21% Growth Amway UK
#31
(2013-01-04, 03:33 AM)ibofightback Wrote: Having said that, I believe the inability to sponsor immediately is absolutely a roadblock that needs fixing. I'm just not sure how they can do it given the undertakings.


Thank you IBOFB for acknowledging what I have been saying for years.
I prefer to look at trends and not just one off percentages as you rightly said but I had to get your attention.Big Grin

If you look at 2009 to 2012 you will see that the number of RC's who received a CVR increased by 1209 in 2010, 1060 in 2011 and 2579 in 2012. The trend is clearly upwards.Wink

CRC's for the same period increased by 3400 in 2010, 1374 in 2011 and 1157 in 2012. The trend is clearly downwards.Sad
As you rightly say this clearly shows where the roadblock is.

It is very simple to fix the plan by allowing new ABO's who have completed the certification process to be able to sponsor right away but not get a Bonus Income unless they have sold to 5 registered customers. Also everyone who sells a product should get a CVR.Smile

It appears that the problem is that the "management" do not seem to want to understand the problem or to look for the fix.Undecided

I personally do not believe that they cannot make changes, that if presented the right way, BURR can object to, especially if they show that the current system is not suceeding.

If you look at the Company Accounts that are available to everyone to see at Companies House you will see a bigger picture.Idea

That means that someone, somewhere, somehow will have be big enough to eat humble pie and change course.Angel
To reach your destination take one step at a time - remember they may not all be in the same direction!
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#32
(2013-01-05, 10:49 AM)sq1 Wrote: Thank you IBOFB for acknowledging what I have been saying for years.


Never disagreed with that.

If you look at 2009 to 2012 you will see that the number of RC's who received a CVR increased by 1209 in 2010, 1060 in 2011 and 2579 in 2012. The trend is clearly upwards.Wink

Quote:CRC's for the same period increased by 3400 in 2010, 1374 in 2011 and 1157 in 2012. The trend is clearly downwards.Sad

I don't have the 2009 data handy, but from the stats I gave, the number of new CRCs in the last 2 years is trending upwards, not downwards

2010 to 2011 = +2403
2011 to 2012 = +2501

It appears you've taken CRC's earning a bonus as your statistic, not new CRCs. That means they've already been certified, so sponsoring is not the issue.

Quote:If you look at the Company Accounts that are available to everyone to see at Companies House you will see a bigger picture.Idea

Send me a ticket, I'll be right over Big Grin
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#33
(2013-01-05, 12:52 PM)ibofightback Wrote:
(2013-01-05, 10:49 AM)sq1 Wrote: Thank you IBOFB for acknowledging what I have been saying for years.


Never disagreed with that.

If you look at 2009 to 2012 you will see that the number of RC's who received a CVR increased by 1209 in 2010, 1060 in 2011 and 2579 in 2012. The trend is clearly upwards.Wink

Quote:CRC's for the same period increased by 3400 in 2010, 1374 in 2011 and 1157 in 2012. The trend is clearly downwards.Sad

I don't have the 2009 data handy, but from the stats I gave, the number of new CRCs in the last 2 years is trending upwards, not downwards

2010 to 2011 = +2403
2011 to 2012 = +2501

It appears you've taken CRC's earning a bonus as your statistic, not new CRCs. That means they've already been certified, so sponsoring is not the issue.

Quote:If you look at the Company Accounts that are available to everyone to see at Companies House you will see a bigger picture.Idea

Send me a ticket, I'll be right over Big Grin


You are the one who is confusing the stats.Rolleyes
The figures I have quoted for the CRC's is like for like compared to RC's who have earned a CVR.
You are looking at the number registered not the ones who are active earning a CVR or Bonus.
The CRC's that have not earned a Bonus or CVR are being downgraded to RC's as of 31.12.2012 a total of 3802.Sad

So my figures are correct showing a downward trend.Rolleyes

I can tell you the bigger picture at Companies House is not a pretty oneUndecided
To reach your destination take one step at a time - remember they may not all be in the same direction!
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#34
(2013-01-05, 06:44 PM)sq1 Wrote: You are the one who is confusing the stats.Rolleyes
The figures I have quoted for the CRC's is like for like compared to RC's who have earned a CVR.


If I'm wrong, then so is the official income disclosure, and it has been for years.

Quote:You are looking at the number registered not the ones who are active earning a CVR or Bonus.

Which is exactly what I said, so how it I'm "confused"?

I've given the number that have earned a bonus and it has also increased from year to year, though the increase has slowed.

The fact remains, the number earning a bonus has gone up, and the average they earned has gone up.

Quote:The CRC's that have not earned a Bonus or CVR are being downgraded to RC's as of 31.12.2012 a total of 3802.Sad

So?

Though I'm curious - what happens if they have downline?

Quote:So my figures are correct showing a downward trend.Rolleyes

They show decreased growth. That's not a downward trend, it's a slower upward trend.

Quote:I can tell you the bigger picture at Companies House is not a pretty oneUndecided

There's more IBOs earning more money, so clearly things are improving on that front. I think it's a fair assumption Amway itself is operating at a loss, but that's not at all surprising.
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#35
Well, I checked with companies house. They of course don't have 2012 sales figures yet, but this is what the 2011 report says -

"year-to date 2nd quarter 2012 are up 8% vs 2nd quarter prior year, and we expect full year-over-year 2012 and 2103 turnover to increase 10% and 6% respectively. We are also seeing significant growth in new Amway Business Owners, approximately 1,300 new entrants per month, who are joining the Company and actively engaging in the revised retail focused business model."

And indeed, they only just made a loss in 2011, much better than I expected, nothing even close to your "the bigger picture at Companies House is not a pretty one"

To be frank, sq1, I'm having my doubts about your motivations on this matter.
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#36
(2013-01-05, 08:04 PM)ibofightback Wrote: To be frank, sq1, I'm having my doubts about your motivations on this matter.


Well we will just have to wait and see who is right then.
The problem is there are none so blind as those who do not wish to see.

My motivation is and always has been, to see a successful, exciting, growing Amway Business in the UK/RoI which enables people to reach for their dreams and improve their lives by helping other people to achieve their dreams improving their lives also.

Based as I said before on the principles of the founding fathers.

Co-founders Jay Van Andel and Rich DeVos created the ethical and operational standards that continue to guide both the company and its distributors in all their activities. These founding principles are carved in stone outside the World Headquarters: Freedom, Family, Hope, and Reward.

Amway will always support the fundamental FREEDOM of people to determine their own future, allowing them the time and resources to protect and nurture their FAMILY. Amway will also always offer HOPE to individuals and the opportunity to earn REWARD in proportion to their efforts.

To reach your destination take one step at a time - remember they may not all be in the same direction!
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#37
(2013-01-06, 01:52 AM)sq1 Wrote: Well we will just have to wait and see who is right then.


No need to wait, I already bought the financial report from Companies House as you suggested.

It doesn't say what you claim it says. Not even close.

That's not exactly following the principles of integrity from the founding fathers is it, sq1?
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#38
(2013-01-06, 03:49 AM)ibofightback Wrote:
(2013-01-06, 01:52 AM)sq1 Wrote: Well we will just have to wait and see who is right then.


No need to wait, I already bought the financial report from Companies House as you suggested.

It doesn't say what you claim it says. Not even close.

That's not exactly following the principles of integrity from the founding fathers is it, sq1?


IBOFB I dispair.Rolleyes
You obviously do not understand how to read Company Financial filed Accounts and understand the way they are made up.

You are so quick to jump in with both feet before thinking things through having read the first paragraph. Read further on into the figures and you will see what I mean.Idea

As I said if you understand the Accounts you will see a bigger picture and it is not a pretty one.
That is all I said I did not claim anything.Rolleyes
I am certainly not going to go into financial details on this open forum.
All I will say is that Amway UK is well supported financially externally so there is no need for people to worry on that account.

This spat is detracting away from the real issue that you conceded and that is how the roadblock can be fixed enabling the business to grow faster.Idea

Lets have a sensible discussion with ideas on how things can be improved and then maybe we can go to Amway UK with viable suggestions which will help everyone all round with a UK/RoI Business.Big Grin
To reach your destination take one step at a time - remember they may not all be in the same direction!
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#39
(2013-01-06, 11:04 AM)sq1 Wrote: You obviously do not understand how to read Company Financial filed Accounts and understand the way they are made up.


Oh good grief, I've been running my own companies for nearly 20 years. Right now I'm knees deep in paperwork an book-keeping before handing it to our accountant this week.

Quote:I am certainly not going to go into financial details on this open forum.

Why not? If it's public information, go for it.
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#40
(2013-01-06, 03:36 PM)ibofightback Wrote:
(2013-01-06, 11:04 AM)sq1 Wrote: You obviously do not understand how to read Company Financial filed Accounts and understand the way they are made up.


Oh good grief, I've been running my own companies for nearly 20 years. Right now I'm knees deep in paperwork an book-keeping before handing it to our accountant this week.

Quote:I am certainly not going to go into financial details on this open forum.

Why not? If it's public information, go for it.




IBOFB it is obvious to me that you have no intention of having a sensible discussion and all you are interested in is contradicting posts.

To admit to me you are knee deep in paperwork tells me you have no idea how to keep accounts let alone what they mean. Anyone who takes a professional approach to their business will be on top of their paperwork ready for an inspection from HMRC in the UK which they can do at any time.

To suggest that I talk about figures that are obtained from Companies House on an open forum is just plain crass.

Prove to me you are serious about helping to resolve the challenges we have here in the UK/RoI by making some intelligent suggestions then I might take note.

Until then you can give me as many minus points as you like it wont change anything other than prove my point.Big Grin

To reach your destination take one step at a time - remember they may not all be in the same direction!
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