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Brig Hart/MonaVie article-Yikes!
#71
ibofightback Wrote:
MichMan Wrote:What makes you think he lied? A newspaper headline?

Can you back up your claim that he did lie? Do you have a copy of that admission?


Actually I as characterising what you said he said, which isn't necessarily what he said Smile

In any case, I have the swedish newspapers where he clearly implied he was threatened by Amway, and which has still not been retracted.


The US paper never retracted their story that Schrieber "lied" either, even though Schreiber publicly asked them for one, and after providing them a copy of his "admission" that proved their story was inaccurate.

That article was a(nother) good example of sleazy (or lazy) journalism.

It is interesting to note that Amway never sued Schreiber for anything that was written in the book, only for a poorly worded off-the-cuff remark that was translated from English to Sweedish by a local reporter before it was printed in the paper.
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#72
MichMan Wrote:It is interesting to note that Amway never sued Schreiber for anything that was written in the book, only for a poorly worded off-the-cuff remark that was translated from English to Sweedish by a local reporter before it was printed in the paper.


Umm. No. He was sued because of both the swedish interview and also a letter he wrote to the cleveland free times and also for an "update" on his website. Neither letters to the editor nor internationally arranged interviews qualify as "off the cuff".

In particular, in March 2006, Defendant wrote and sent a letter to the editor of The Cleveland Free Times. On March 8, 2006, The Cleveland Free Times published the following statements from the letter, which are attributed to Defendant:

I inadvertently discovered and documented literally billions in systematic consumer fraud. Naively, thinking it was only being perpetrated by Kingpin distributors, I reported it directly to Amway/Quixtar senior management and to Dick DeVos, who was then president and is the son of the billionaire founder (now running for governor of Michigan). To my shock, I was told in a face-to-face meeting what gun would be used to kill me if I became a whistleblower and made waves. After a decade of diligent work, our sole income was shut off in an effort to starve me into silence. My wife and young son received death threats on the telephone, resulting in an FBI tap and trace on our line. A financial offer was made at the same time we were being pressured to sign a non-disclosure agreement. We refused and lost our home and medical insurance and had to declare bankruptcy. I have been advised that a private investigator was hired to follow me in an attempt to find information that would discredit my character.

...

15. On or before April 3, 2006, a Swedish newspaper published the following statement attributed to Defendant :

When I, a person quite high up in the organization, discovered and documented the scam, I reported it to the highest echelon, Dick DeVos. That might have been quite naive. But I did it. The result was that I received a
direct death threat. My wife and children have been threatened over the telephone. Amway also stopped my income flow in an attempt to silence me. It is ironic, considering that my only aim in writing the book was to protect the distributors.


For example, around October, 2006, Defendant published the following false statements:
Big News in the UK - Double Diamonds Fred and Linda Harteis are coming from America to speak to trusting UK distributors. . . . A reliable source advised that public discolsure [sic] of the losses of many of his downline forced Amway/Quixtar to sanction Harteis and not allow him to sell millions of dollars of books, tapes, CDs, videos to his downline, most all of whom seem to be losing money. ”
* * * *
Quixtar hired the law firm Brinks Hofer to file a le gal action against me to prevent me from speaking to the media and to eventually pull down the we [sic] site and not have contact with you.


The asked him to retract the statements, he ignored them. If they were "off the cuff" statements that were misunderstood, why didn't he correct them when asked? They tried arbitration, he rejected it. Only then did they sue.
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#73
MichMan Wrote:Yes, he could have done that..... but he would have had to go against his upline, which was very powerful at the time. He would have had to tell his group that he no longer supported the "system" and that he was not attending or promoting the next function....


Yet, probably the majority of enrolled IBOs did not participate in systems at all....

Regardless, as far as excuses go, "it would have been hard" is about as pathetic as they get....
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#74
ibofb-

1- His verbal statements (and the letter you posted) can be construed to be saying that the death threats came from his contact with Dick DeVos, even though he makes it clear in his book who threatened his life. And it gave Amway's expensive lawyers an opportunity to make Scheibeler's life even more miserable than they already had.

2- Yes, Amway tried to force him into Amway's illegal arbitration process. But the court ruled that Amway could NOT force him into arbitration since he had not been a distributor for over ten years. And why would Scheibeler want to go into Amway's arbitration process? It has been found my multiple courts to be illegally tilted toward Amway. Plus it is more expensive..... Plus it allows Amway to avoid embarrassment of their actions being made available to the public.

The judge:



"In conclusion, this Court does not believe the arbitration agreement entered in to by the plaintiff on October 4, 1997, still binds the Plaintiff (Scheibeler) almost ten years later when the Plaintiff has long ago given up his distributorship and association with Amway. To so find would mean the Plaintiff's rights to speak about this matter would forever be gone but for the confidential arbitration in the Amway system. Amway-Quixtar will have the same remedies as any other party would have to file a civil action to address the torts in which they claim the Plaintiff has engaged. They are not left without a remedy."

"It makes no sense that an agreement to arbitrated disputes arising out of or relating to an Amway distributorship signed in 1997 would forever prohibit the free speech rights of an individual who is simply voicing criticisms of Amway nine years after signing an agreement to arbitrate. Where in the agreement to arbitrate does it say that an individual such as Mr. Scheibeler will forever give up his rights to offer criticism of Amway or its practices. The court believes the interpretation of Defendant Amway-Quixtar that the arbitration agreement would somehow still apply to public comment is far too expansive an interpretation of their arbitration system and the logical purpose and role of the system."


If Scheibeler could have afforded lawyers as expensive as Amway's who could have edited the letter and coached him for his interview, he could have been able to avoid the whole thing.

When you look at the whole Scheibeler saga, it is amazing that he was as effective as he was... a real David vs. Goliath/Amway-AMO story. Yes, Bridgett, he was emotional and dramatic. But like him or not he helped to expose a seedy part of Amway's AMO systems. Years later, things have begun to change for the better. And hopefully those abuses are a thing of the past.

Weary-

When Scheibeler informed his group of Amway rule violations by his upline Fred Harteis, his tool income was immediately taken away and Amway discontinued his distributorship. Yes, that is 'hard' or anybody. Would that be hard for you if you lost your real estate license in the same manner?
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#75
MichMan Wrote:When Scheibeler informed his group of Amway rule violations by his upline Fred Harteis, his tool income was immediately taken away and Amway discontinued his distributorship. Yes, that is 'hard' or anybody. Would that be hard for you if you lost your real estate license in the same manner?


It was not an unfortunate turn of events, Michman, it was a consequence of a history of unfortunate choices and associations.

Granted, hindsight is 20/20, and arm-chair QB-ing the whole drama is easier than it might have been while in the game, but neither of these points absolves Scheibeler of the responsibility of having made a bad situation worse, when he *could* have done otherwise.

Whatever level of "hard" the losses were, the level of "hard" to avoid them was probably far less.
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#76
Wearyeyed Wrote:
MichMan Wrote:When Scheibeler informed his group of Amway rule violations by his upline Fred Harteis, his tool income was immediately taken away and Amway discontinued his distributorship. Yes, that is 'hard' or anybody. Would that be hard for you if you lost your real estate license in the same manner?


It was not an unfortunate turn of events, Michman, it was a consequence of a history of unfortunate choices and associations.

Granted, hindsight is 20/20, and arm-chair QB-ing the whole drama is easier than it might have been while in the game, but neither of these points absolves Scheibeler of the responsibility of having made a bad situation worse, when he *could* have done otherwise.

Whatever level of "hard" the losses were, the level of "hard" to avoid them was probably far less.



There is no doubt that Scheibeler took the hardest road possible. The easiest thing that he could have done would have been to keep supporting the AMO's corrupt system. Instead, he took a stand and it cost him everything.

Amway on the other hand, avoided doing the 'hard' thing for nearly three decades. Rich DeVos in 1983 knew the AMO system of building Amway was unfair and in many ways even illegal (his words, not mine). But it wasn't until 2008- nearly 25 years later- that Amway began to correct it.
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#77
I'm sort of ambivalent about Scheibeler (nor have I followed his case very closely) - IMO he was a huge part of the problem for a long time. But his online book DID give everyone a good look into the ugly truth behind the AMOs at their worst. So did Ruth Carter in her book a decade earlier - but since it was a book - it wasn't as readily available to the general public to read.

Making the abuses public was the beginning of the end for the Tool Mongers. The worst liars were exposed for exactly that. The old adage about "throwing enough poo on the wall that some will stick" is true - and it obviously riled up enough people at the Corporation and IBOAI that they decided to take action. Yes, it took a LOOONG time and they were more or less forced into it - but the end result has been fantastic. And judging by the Sales Reports - none of the "dreaded" changes have hurt - but very likely HELPED. $1B in a MONTH???? That's hardly the stuff of a "corrupt organization" Wink
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