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Brig Hart/MonaVie article-Yikes!
#11
qqruzaz Wrote:
Deb Wrote:
qqruzaz Wrote:Do you know what difference in Dexters system selling motivation CD and books and Brig Harts selling it? Why Dexter is OK for Amway, but Brig Hart was violating rules for similar things... ?


Because Dex accepted Accreditation. It's pretty obvious that Brig did not.......


could you please explain more what you mean by this "accreditation". Is that Dex motivation system is fully reviewed and acepted by Amway, or what does that means?


Accreditation, and now Accreditation Plus (Accreditation +) is in the North American market. For anyone to be able to sell BSMs (business support materials) for the Amway business, they must be an "Approved Provider." And in order to be an Approved Provider, they must adhere to certain quality assurance standards.
These standards cover such issues as:
*the content of materials offered by the Approved Provider,
*how the business opportunity is presented/explained/postioned,
*acceptable and unacceptable topics discussed at meetings
*the optional nature of the BSMs, as well as bein fiscally responsible
*acceptable and unacceptable income claims
*messaging (such as the "Best Practices" dialogue written by Amway) that must be posted/communicated to all IBOs affiliated with the Approved Provider
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#12
Bridgett is correct; I was being a little "snarky" (Imagine that?!)

For a long time, the upper levels within a Motivational System made a LOT of money, by convincing IBOs that they NEEDED to buy tapes/CDs/attend all functions & meetings. To the point where this income was their main focus - the "product sales" were merely the means-to-an-end. When Accreditation came along, *some* high-level IBOs left in a huff, because they didn't like the rules that were about to be strictly enforced, because it would mean a reduction of their income. Other high-level IBOs got terminated by Amway for breaking rules. And the high-level IBOs who stayed with Amway - Dex being one of them - have agreed to run their businesses with integrity.

As a dear friend of mine so nicely put it, regarding the "Great Exodus": "Some people chose to be Amway IBOs, and others chose to be Tool Mongers"....LOL!!
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#13
qqruzaz Wrote:Do you know what difference in Dexters system selling motivation CD and books and Brig Harts selling it? Why Dexter is OK for Amway, but Brig Hart was violating rules for similar things... ?


There wasn't much difference between the way Brig did it or the way Dexter did it.

Dexter's Diamonds, like those in most other AMOs, made most of their money from selling tools versus actual sales of Amway products. Many of those Diamonds finally tell the truth after they leave the business.... Tool money is 3-1, 4-1 and in this case 10-1!

The problem here is that Dexter and others got too greedy with Hart's cut of the tool money, which caused Hart to file a lawsuit which was quite an embarrassment for Amway and the Diamonds involved once it was made public. Amway chose to back Dexter and the other Diamonds and to try and shut Hart up. The IBOAI board members offered to donate $30 million to Brig Hart's favorite Christian charity if he would only drop the lawsuit and publicly apologize. (The letter, written on IBOAI letterhead is on the internet, along with the written apology that they drafted for him to sign) If you read the lawsuit you would see that everyone involved had blood on their hands, Amway and the IBOAI included.

Here is a thought, instead of criticizing Hart, maybe ibos and Amway should thank him. It was the lawsuits of Hart, Stewart, Morrison and Pokorny that helped to clean up the business so that it can go on to the next level.
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#14
well, I'd say Hart, Stewart, and Morrison had little real influence on "change" and Pokorny was a waste of time that occurred after most change was already underway.

IMO it was BERR vs Amway UK and the exodus of tens of thousands of TEAM IBOs that triggered the greatest changes
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#15
I think the effects of the tool mongering lawsuits had a dramatic effect on US sales.

The tool lawsuits began to hit the internet in in the late 90s and early 2000. People who were interested in knowing more about Amway could easily go online and read lawsuits involving Amway, Morrison, Hanrahan, Touchton, Hart I, Hart II, Stewart, Schmitz, etc.

This is the same time that Amway hit its peak in the US. Sales volume at that time was substantially higher than it is today, after more than 10 years- maybe even double what it is today (after adjusting for inflation and wholesale versus retail reporting).

Look at the effect that the lawsuits had on Hal Gooch's organization after they were made public. Hal Gooch, by the way, was the person behind the Touchton lawsuit, both of Brig Hart's lawsuits, Crown Ambassador Kenny Stewart lawsuits and the Diamond Charlie Schmitz lawsuit. Brig Hart, a Double Diamond who was doing $350 million per year, was only one downline part of one leg of Hal Gooch. Other Diamonds in the Gooch organization were EDC Bill Childers, Crown Ambassador Kenny Stewart and his Diamonds plus a dozen Michigan and Indiana Diamonds. If Hart was doing $350 million per year, Gooch with 70-80 Diamonds had to have been doing at least double that.

Look at the Gooch organization today. After the lawsuits against Amway, Gooch etc were made public, most of Gooch's Diamonds left him.- Crown Kenny Stewart is out of the business. Double Diamond Brig Hart is out. Foley and Childers started their own tool company (one of the first ones that was accredited). A dozen or so TIF Diamonds tried to do the same but failed. They were all fired or quit. Some started their own tool companies. Some joined other AMOs. A couple of them became self-accredited with Amway. And LOTS of them simply quit.

So yes, I believe the lawsuits, along with the internet, helped clean up Amway by exposing the tool mess.

But I do agree that Amway's problems in the UK along with the TEAM exodus, was the final straw for Amway. They allowed distributors in the UK and the US run the Amway business in an embarrassingly dishonest manner. And they saw that the time was ripe to change it.
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#16
MichMan Wrote:Here is a thought, instead of criticizing Hart, maybe ibos and Amway should thank him. It was the lawsuits of Hart, Stewart, Morrison and Pokorny that helped to clean up the business so that it can go on to the next level.


Mmm…nope. :nea: I will not thank him for being a part of the problem of the past, and I will not thank him for continuing to be a part of the problem as he still, today, represents the the MLM/Network Marketing industry and reflects very poorly on it.


ibofightback Wrote:IMO it was BERR vs Amway UK and the exodus of tens of thousands of TEAM IBOs that triggered the greatest changes


I would disagree that theTEAM exodus had anything to do with the changes. They left in response to the changes that were starting to unfold.

I do think though that, the sheer numbers of who left, combined with the Corporate platforms on the Internet which existed at the time (the Alticor blog, Opportunity Zone's various blogs ) exposed the "sheltered" atmosphere of many LOAs and the dangers--such as relying solely on one's LOA for information. And the power struggle which existed between the Corp and some LOAs.
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#17
Bridgett Wrote:
MichMan Wrote:Here is a thought, instead of criticizing Hart, maybe ibos and Amway should thank him. It was the lawsuits of Hart, Stewart, Morrison and Pokorny that helped to clean up the business so that it can go on to the next level.


Mmm…nope. :nea: I will not thank him for being a part of the problem of the past, and I will not thank him for continuing to be a part of the problem as he still, today, represents the the MLM/Network Marketing industry and reflects very poorly on it.

.


I can agree with you on that. That sentence was a poor choice of words on my part.

But I do think that the lawsuits played a big part in Amway changing its ways. Amway at the time thought that the lawsuits were the problem. Then they thought that the internet was the problem. In reality, the lawsuits, Hart's included, may have been the best thing to happen to Amway US in decades.

And distributors CAN be thankful for the outcome. Amway is changing. And (hopefully) the business never returns to the method of business that caused so much controversy.
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#18
ibofightback Wrote:and the exodus of tens of thousands of TEAM IBOs that triggered the greatest changes


I'm about 99.9% certain the changes were underway within the IBOAI before the Great Exodus. That's why the tool mongers were so unhappy :bye:
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#19
Deb Wrote:
ibofightback Wrote:and the exodus of tens of thousands of TEAM IBOs that triggered the greatest changes


I'm about 99.9% certain the changes were underway within the IBOAI before the Great Exodus. That's why the tool mongers were so unhappy :bye:


The problem I have with that theory is that at the time TEAM was kicked out, they pretty much were running the IBOAI. Remember how p***ed they were at Quixtar renaming to Amway? That happened *before* they got kicked out.

Changes like accreditation had started to happen, but I think they were more triggered by Amway UK than anything else. The TEAM exodus I think made corporate realise how they really had to "reconnect" with the field, how there were a large large body of IBOs who had a very little attachment to Amway/Quixtar, they were part of TEAM or BWW or Internet or N21 - not part of Quixtar. But what do you expect if you have virtually no communication with them?
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#20
I think everyone here could be correct.

The process of accreditation (or at least of raising the standards on AMOs) was in place before the TEAM exodus.

But it was the combination of the UK and the TEAM resignations and firings that gave Amway the resolve to carry through with the process.

Amway has tried MANY times since the 80s to reign in the tool companies. But they never were able to do it with force. Fifteen years after Amway's first showdown with the Diamonds and Rich DeVos's Directly Speaking tape, Brig Hart and other Diamonds were making tool profits that were ten times that of their Amway income. (while Amway looked the other way)

But with the UK problems becoming known and the TEAM fiasco, Amway saw an opportunity to correct many bad business practices. And Amway has (so far) stuck to its guns.

Plus Amway today is in a stronger bargaining position with the US Diamonds, since the US has become a smaller and smaller share of Amway's worldwide volume.
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