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I still think it is a pyramid scheme...
#11
I'd like to say that I really, really, REALLY think that it would be a good idea, for those looking to build the Amway Business TODAY, to listen to teaching and training of TODAY.

I really do not think listening to, nor refering to audios from the 80s, 90s, even 00s is beneficial on sooooooo many levels.

The...world...has...changed. And how those guys talked in the past worked wonderfully...in the past. There is zero disrespect intended when I say that.

I think they would agree with me, hence why Frank Luntz has been brought in to help some "old dogs," which, BTW aren't necessarily the Diamonds, but older distributors/IBOs who want to keep using language from the "good ol' days" whose businesses haven't grown, have gone backwards, or who aren't even actively building the business. :doh: Frank presented at Achievers, so it's not just Diamonds he's talking to.
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#12
ibofightback Wrote:Marketing 101 tells you not to bring up associations you don't want.


And so you started a thread and posted this video (under Funnies) on AmwayTalk because...
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#13
ok smartass ... Tongue don't bring it up with prospects. Anyone on this website or finding it through googling has almost certainly hit the association already
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#14
Bridgett Wrote:I'd like to say that I really, really, REALLY think that it would be a good idea, for those looking to build the Amway Business TODAY, to listen to teaching and training of TODAY.

I really do not think listening to, nor refering to audios from the 80s, 90s, even 00s is beneficial on sooooooo many levels.

The...world...has...changed. And how those guys talked in the past worked wonderfully...in the past. There is zero disrespect intended when I say that.

I think they would agree with me



Bridgett imo if "they" truly agreed with you, then archived speeches wouldn't still be available thru many of the existing Amway organizations 2day. Granted, "they" still make a profit selling them, but what Amway organization wants to make available any speech from days gone by that can hurt their business?

To quote you..."I really do not think listening to, nor refering to audios from the 80s, 90s, even 00s is beneficial on sooooooo many levels."

Imo one should be v-e-r-y careful in making bold blanket statements like that.

I shall diplomatically challenge your words by respectfully interjecting the following:

So..... you would recommend that ppl STAY AWAY from attitude sessions made b4 the year 2000 by the great Masters of this bu$ine$$ such as Dave Severn, Ron Puryear, Bill Britt, Dexter Yager, Bob Crisp, Roland Hughes, Rich DeVos, Rick Setzer...and far-r too many others to count? Bridget, I feel u are viewing only one side of a two sided coin: Yes, I agree, bu$ine$$ building technique$ DO change.. over time ....they change with technology. However, bu$ine$$ building principle$ do not.

In terms of incorporating a (different) bu$ine$$ building technique that one learns from a tape, please remember an age old principle: Check upline b4 doing any thing differently.

Imo it is unhealthy to "shut the door" on audio recordings made by 'The Master$' of this business... whether they were made last week, or in 1959. In terms of a tape teaching a bu$ine$$ building technique, check upline b4 applying it to your bu$ine$$.

:thumbsup:
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#15
Yeah - but the IBO earning structure within Amway is NOT "pyramid-shaped" - not even close. (Granted - the Corporation probably is - the guys at the top make the most money? - As it is with almost ANY company)

Within my own LOS:

JA-RI - Emerald
Bass Co - Emerald
Hansen - Crown Ambassador

Amway looks more like a Mountain range - there Are BIG mountains, little mountains, and foothills. While certain LOS's *might* be pyramidal shaped - the flow of volume overall is not equal. There were countless people in our downline who made WAY more money than we did (that could be the understatement of the year :rotfl: )

My Grandfather was one of the people who testified at the Senate Subcommittee hearings regarding whether or not Amway was a "pyramid" back in the late 70's, I think?

Amway is rather unique - imagine being hired for a job and being told you have the ability to make 5 times more than your BOSS?
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#16
I haven't browsed InterNet's (Yager) on-line catalog for quite a while, so I don't know what archived recordings are available. For the past few years a CD hasn't been promoted within my LOA (line of affiliation) that's more than a year old. During the past few years the mantra has been "It's a totally new business." In other words, "Not your father's Oldsmobile". However, the Michael's tool room usually stocks an mp3 "best of" collection of Dexter Yager's talks, broken down in 10-year chapters, 70's, 80's, 90's, and 00's. I would agree with Mulimillionaire that "attitude" talks are probably still relevant. Dexter Yager rarely taught techniques anyways. I sometimes like to listen old recordings from Earl Nightingale and Jim Rohn. But I think Bridgett is right. I don't think you can be on the cutting edge business-wise, and be nostalgic for the crusty old teachings to the extent that you're promoting them to your down-line.
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#17
Deb Wrote:Yeah - but the IBO earning structure within Amway is NOT "pyramid-shaped" - not even close. (Granted - the Corporation probably is - the guys at the top make the most money? - As it is with almost ANY company)

Within my own LOS:

JA-RI - Emerald
Bass Co - Emerald
Hansen - Crown Ambassador

Amway looks more like a Mountain range - there Are BIG mountains, little mountains, and foothills. While certain LOS's *might* be pyramidal shaped - the flow of volume overall is not equal. There were countless people in our downline who made WAY more money than we did (that could be the understatement of the year :rotfl: )


Deb, While I do agree with your pov above, and I believe your r very accurate from your own particular perspective, (which is an insiders pov,) I believe your overlooking a wee small point...the critics pov.

The folks who banter the "pyramid" theory do the criticizing from the outside, and those on the outside have a very limited pov of the geometry that an organization actually takes on as it grow$...the geometry that you eluded to above. Going back to the basics, when someone sees the bu$ine$$ it is viewed by way of seeing the "magic circle$". Years ago WWDB STP'ed by drawing out what became know as "me-you-6-4-2". In the '90's that was changed to "me-you-6-3-3". When those circle$ are drawn out, the bu$ine$$ indeed takes on the shape of a triangle (aka...pyramid) hence, (imo) that was part of the reason Amway got branded as a "pyramid scheme" by the uneducated outside critic.
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#18
And here's the thing - there's no particular reason to draw out a network in that shape, and thus no reason to trigger "pyramid" in people's minds. I had an experience a few years back using a "quick plan" developed by our upline that had a similar kind of diagram on it. Here in Sweden I kept getting "it's a pyramid" objections (it doesn't help that a government body once referred to Amway as "pyramid selling").

I took the exact same "quick plan" and turned the diagram sideways - and the "it's a pyramid" objections virtually disappeared.

So why draw out the model in a way that's going to trigger the association, and then if your not (our "official" plans here aren't pyramid shaped now, more circular) then why raise the issue when most people aren't even thinking about it?
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#19
ibofightback Wrote:And here's the thing - there's no particular reason to draw out a network in that shape, and thus no reason to trigger "pyramid" in people's minds. I had an experience a few years back using a "quick plan" developed by our upline that had a similar kind of diagram on it. Here in Sweden I kept getting "it's a pyramid" objections (it doesn't help that a government body once referred to Amway as "pyramid selling").

I took the exact same "quick plan" and turned the diagram sideways - and the "it's a pyramid" objections virtually disappeared.

So why draw out the model in a way that's going to trigger the association, and then if your not (our "official" plans here aren't pyramid shaped now, more circular) then why raise the issue when most people aren't even thinking about it?

Not to steal your thunder IBOFB, in regards to STPing isn't it important to be in exact duplication with how your upline is drawing out the circles? Granted I do not know how your upline does this in comparison with how you do, but to me that one aspect alone seems v-e-r-y important in maintaining the integrity and the consistency of the organization.
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#20
to quote one of our CEP (SOT) from earlier this year - "system says show the plan, it doesn't dictate how"

if nobody tries out new things, how does innovation and improvement occur?
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