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"Religious Freedom" crosses the line??
#11
ibofightback Wrote:
Bridgett Wrote:Back to what I said:

No one seems to fear for their lives, when someone plans, or is indeed disrespectful to Jesus or the Bible. People of different faiths, have been operating out of fear with this Qur'an-burning media stunt.


Back to what I said: people have received death threats for being "disrespectful to Jesus". I vividly remember the "piss christ" episode, the gallery folk needed police protection.


IBOFB, was the state department called in, to beg that these piss christ peeps reconsider? Were a bunch of leaders for all different religions, speaking out, imploring the piss christ folks, for the security of the nation, to stop at once? Were celebrities pleading that the piss christ creators stop in the name of peace?

No. And why is that?
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#12
Bridgett Wrote:No. And why is that?


Because it was an "internal" matter, not one that may influence current international relations and disputes. If it had been in say Turkey, I expect Turkey's equivalent of the State Department might very well have gotten involved. Having said that, several US Senators were involved in trying to get it's display stopped and numerous religious leaders were involved in the dispute - the then Catholic Archbishop of Melbourne tried to get a court order to stop it's display in that city.

I have zero doubt that if an islamic country had been displaying it, there would of be a substantial number of americans calling for a military response!
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#13
ibofightback Wrote:I have zero doubt that if an islamic country had been displaying it, there would of be a substantial number of americans calling for a military response!

Of course! Just scan the comments on any news article on-line, and the majority of them are crass, inflammatory, and idiotic. We've already come to the conclusion on another thread that most people are stupid, so it's logical to predict that "a substantial number of americans [would call] for a military response." Most, if not all of these people would be satisfied to rant and roar for a brief time, and then move on to something else. I think people also have a fairly short attention span when it comes to fascinating events covered by the media.
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#14
Bridgett Wrote:Why exactly are we so fearful of how *certain* Muslims will respond when one is disrespectful to their book or their prophet?

.


Because THEIR Holy Book tells them to die defending their religion. We've already seen what 19 committed men and some well-fueled jets were capable of - and that was in retaliation for "defiling Islamic countries with our presence" I believe.

Jesus, on the other hand, taught us to "turn the other cheek". Granted - throughout history - a LOT of people have been killed by Christians bent on pushing their agenda.

While both religions have Zealots - theirs are well-organized/committed to their cause/are deadly efficient. Ours in THIS century (speaking as a Christian) bomb abortion clinics and burn the other guys' Holy Books. Which side do YOU want to piss off?? :dontknow:
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#15
Wearyeyed Wrote:"Hey, HEY! With 50 of my parishioners, we're gonna' burn the Quran in protest of Islamic extremism!"


I know you wrote this "tongue in cheek" - but part of the problem is this whack-job is declaring ALL Muslims to be "evil" Rolleyes If *I* was part of the vast majority of Muslims who simply go about their lives living peacefully and working hard...THAT kind of statement would get MY undies in a bunch, too.
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#16
And let's not forgot that for some years, US (and coalition) troops were killing muslims in Afghanistan with gun sights inscribed with biblical quotes

One could certainly interpret that as "killing in the name of Jesus", no?
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#17
Deb Wrote:
Wearyeyed Wrote:"Hey, HEY! With 50 of my parishioners, we're gonna' burn the Quran in protest of Islamic extremism!"


I know you wrote this "tongue in cheek" - but part of the problem is this whack-job is declaring ALL Muslims to be "evil" Rolleyes If *I* was part of the vast majority of Muslims who simply go about their lives living peacefully and working hard...THAT kind of statement would get MY undies in a bunch, too.


But, he is not burning a Muslim, he is burning a book that largely defines Islam (absent oral tradition, of course.)

The whole thing is SO absurd, Muslims may kill over it, Americans are afraid of it, news media makes a capital issue of it, presidents oppose it, and so on.

Still, let's be clear.

He's burning a book.

Not flying aircraft into buildings, nor invading foreign countries, nor burning clinics, nor decapitating hostages, he's not terrorizing local Muslims....

I agree...a bunch of people will get their panties in a bunch.

But, I have a REAL philosophical problem with almost ANY otherwise peaceful demonstration of free-speech, which does not restrict any other person's freedoms or liberties, on the *primary* basis of threat of violence.

Such a threat almost begs to push the buttons, because symbolic opposition to violent acts is not nearly as persuasive as watching people carry them out...
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#18
It's like those court-scenes in movies where the attorney has to prove some cool-as-a-cucumber, rational-to-the-core, upstanding model citizen acted irrationally, in a fit of irresponsible, passionate rage.

Somehow, somewhere, when it looks like the "bad" guy is on the high moral ground, he get's his buttons pushed just right, the jury sees the horrible reality.

Now, I am not saying Islam or it's followers are "the bad guy", but they are definitely positioned in most minds "on the higher moral ground", but stay there largely by the threat of violence.

Why that seems so "acceptable" is beyond me... Confusedcratch:
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#19
Bridgett Wrote:No one seems to fear for their lives, when someone plans, or is indeed disrespectful to Jesus or the Bible. People of different faiths, have been operating out of fear with this Qur'an-burning media stunt.


You are correct. There were 'unhappy' people when it was discovered our United States government subsidized "Piss Christ." And people should have been mad.

But there was no violence.

And there was no violence when Snead O'Connor ripped up a picture of the Pope on Saturday Night Live.. no violence when Yoko Ono tore up a Bible on stage.... no violence when Larry David, creator of Seinfeld, wrote a skit where someone pissed on the Bible. etc.

There IS a double standard and it IS frustrating. Code Pink, Bill Ayers and many leftists have done things just as offensive. But for some reason, they media does not share that sense of offense that other Americans do.

All that being said, the guy in Florida is a nutjob. He should not do it since it is offensive, plus it will put many people's lives at risk. For perspective, he only represents 50 people. And from the pictures half of his congregation is under 12 years old- probably all nieces, nephews and grandchildren. So why give him any airtime?

Networks will not show streakers at football games because they don't want to encourage that kind of behavior. So why give this guy so much play?
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#20
ibofightback Wrote:And let's not forgot that for some years, US (and coalition) troops were killing muslims in Afghanistan with gun sights inscribed with biblical quotes

One could certainly interpret that as "killing in the name of Jesus", no?



Don't be idiotic. The soldiers did not even know there were small coded engravings on those guns. It was done by a private contractor, and in a secret code. The military didn't know. The soldiers didn't know.

Plus those guns were used by US soldiers who were Jewish, atheist, Christian and Muslim.

They were used to kill ANY terrorists in Afghanistan, whether Muslim, atheist, Bath or none of the above.

Thirty years from now when those guns are sold on the black market, third world nations around the world will be using them. You gonna claim they are killing in Jesus' name also?
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