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The unofficial BSM Fight Club
#1
Okay, go for it!
:duel:
:aikido:
:club:
:mod:
(by the way, BSM stands for Business Support Materials, also known as "tools")
 Reply
#2
haha... so true..

there is a place for BSM and there are some that have abused it.. but the point it if this material has helped your upline to stay on the right mind set and is recommending you the book or the CD to listen to why would you not use it??

I am a professional coach and I recommend my student books and exercise programs to assist them to move forward, I don't ever recall anyone telling me that I am scamming them.

We need to take some responsibilities in our actions, NO ONE make us listen to CDs or books; the recommend it because it DOES help. Its a personal development program, some need it more than others.

You CAN build a business without it if your are naturally business orientated and have the people skills and the ability to run a business. Are we forgetting there are a lot of people involved in this business that CAME from a EMPLOYEE mentality and they are in debt because they can't read a financial statement.

IMO, the BSM is not the issue; the issue is whether the person is applying it. However, I believe the BSM should be more then just about motivation; it should be on relationship building, sound business concepts, product knowledge, Leadership, Attitude and just simply some good sound moral standards about life.
 Reply
#3
thechaser Wrote:haha... so true..

there is a place for BSM and there are some that have abused it.. but the point it if this material has helped your upline to stay on the right mind set and is recommending you the book or the CD to listen to why would you not use it??

I am a professional coach and I recommend my student books and exercise programs to assist them to move forward, I don't ever recall anyone telling me that I am scamming them.

We need to take some responsibilities in our actions, NO ONE make us listen to CDs or books; the recommend it because it DOES help. Its a personal development program, some need it more than others.

You CAN build a business without it if your are naturally business orientated and have the people skills and the ability to run a business. Are we forgetting there are a lot of people involved in this business that CAME from a EMPLOYEE mentality and they are in debt because they can't read a financial statement.

IMO, the BSM is not the issue; the issue is whether the person is applying it. However, I believe the BSM should be more then just about motivation; it should be on relationship building, sound business concepts, product knowledge, Leadership, Attitude and just simply some good sound moral standards about life.


Well done aj I applaud your thinking :clapping:

I note that you recommend things you know will benefit your students thechaser. :thumbsup:

That’s how things were when I started in 1982, books and tapes were recommended, tailored to where I was in the business which were of help to me.
Later came the System that you had to go on the Book of the Month and two double tapes a month to be "Core" before your upline would help you.
The Books and Tapes were not tailored to the needs of the distributor (as you do) but were used by the upline as a revenue stream.
But I expect you have heard all this before and yes I was in the Trevor & Jackie Lowe organisation who introduced the System into the UK.
Your business growth was assessed on Book and Tape flow not on P.V. and retail sales.
When I came off the standing order program I was treated more or less as a leper and virtually excommunicated by my upline as far as assistance in building the business was concerned. They were polite and friendly at the meetings but somehow were always now too busy to help.
Hence my aversion to the Systems.
We all need "tools" to help us.
I am not anti tool just anti abuse. :nono:
To reach your destination take one step at a time - remember they may not all be in the same direction!
 Reply
#4
sq1 Wrote:
thechaser Wrote:haha... so true..

there is a place for BSM and there are some that have abused it.. but the point it if this material has helped your upline to stay on the right mind set and is recommending you the book or the CD to listen to why would you not use it??

I am a professional coach and I recommend my student books and exercise programs to assist them to move forward, I don't ever recall anyone telling me that I am scamming them.

We need to take some responsibilities in our actions, NO ONE make us listen to CDs or books; the recommend it because it DOES help. Its a personal development program, some need it more than others.

You CAN build a business without it if your are naturally business orientated and have the people skills and the ability to run a business. Are we forgetting there are a lot of people involved in this business that CAME from a EMPLOYEE mentality and they are in debt because they can't read a financial statement.

IMO, the BSM is not the issue; the issue is whether the person is applying it. However, I believe the BSM should be more then just about motivation; it should be on relationship building, sound business concepts, product knowledge, Leadership, Attitude and just simply some good sound moral standards about life.


Well done aj I applaud your thinking :clapping:

I note that you recommend things you know will benefit your students thechaser. :thumbsup:

That’s how things were when I started in 1982, books and tapes were recommended, tailored to where I was in the business which were of help to me.
Later came the System that you had to go on the Book of the Month and two double tapes a month to be "Core" before your upline would help you.
The Books and Tapes were not tailored to the needs of the distributor (as you do) but were used by the upline as a revenue stream.
But I expect you have heard all this before and yes I was in the Trevor & Jackie Lowe organisation who introduced the System into the UK.
Your business growth was assessed on Book and Tape flow not on P.V. and retail sales.
When I came off the standing order program I was treated more or less as a leper and virtually excommunicated by my upline as far as assistance in building the business was concerned. They were polite and friendly at the meetings but somehow were always now too busy to help.
Hence my aversion to the Systems.
We all need "tools" to help us.
I am not anti tool just anti abuse. :nono:


Great stuff aj, thechaser and sq1 :thumbsup:

Same here, am not anti-tool just anti-abuse.
10 Key Words: Be so busy giving recognition that you don't need it.
 Reply
#5
wctc Wrote:Great stuff aj, ...

I didn't contribute anything ... yet. Cool
I'll sneak in and strike for the kill when you least expect it.
 Reply
#6
As long as this is the fight arena, I think it pretty sad that people call it abuse when at no time is a person restricted from not participating in tools.

Regardless of the perceived no-contact "pressure," the potential "shunning" by upline, or the idea that somehow the information is of less value because it is presented in different ways (and you have to pay over and over for the "same" stuff.)

Maybe once, maybe twice, heck...maybe you get "abused" for 6 months...but if you haven't figured out by then...you aren't reading or listening to the stuff you're buying.

Maybe the "abuse" police are referring to those without the "capacity" to decide better.

Fair enough; I sincerely hope that fraction of a population finds relief in the anti-abuse efforts here and abroad.

That's all I have to say about that.
 Reply
#7
ajgannon Wrote:
wctc Wrote:Great stuff aj, ...

I didn't contribute anything ... yet. Cool
I'll sneak in and strike for the kill when you least expect it.


You started the new thread :clapping:
10 Key Words: Be so busy giving recognition that you don't need it.
 Reply
#8
sq1 Wrote:Your business growth was assessed on Book and Tape flow not on P.V. and retail sales.
When I came off the standing order program I was treated more or less as a leper and virtually excommunicated by my upline as far as assistance in building the business was concerned. They were polite and friendly at the meetings but somehow were always now too busy to help.
Hence my aversion to the Systems.
We all need "tools" to help us.
I am not anti tool just anti abuse. :nono:

I'm really sorry that you were treated that way. That certainly wasn't cool. I've sometimes been on the fence about the standing order materials. In general I think they're excellent. I've cancelled my subscription a few times over the years, and my up-line has never brought it up, and I did keep in contact with them. My up-line recommends BSMs, but I've never felt they were mandatory in order to receive help. I'm not trying to downplay your experience, by contrasting it with my own. I believe that really happened to you.

I've been one of those people who hasn't matched my BSM purchases with the "appropriate level of effort". In the past I had this weird idea that if I invested in my business it would force me to do the activity. Why would I waste money on tools if I wasn't going to use them? Somehow I was able to do just that--buy tools and sit on them until they were no longer relevant anymore. Setting proper goals and having a dream is what fuels the activity.

I did something really stupid during my last break from BSMs, so I think it's good for me to stay "plugged in" to the system.

Sorry I didn't put up much of fight. The title of the thread was just for fun. Smile
 Reply
#9
From the "Tex's head exploding thread":

TB 2 IBO Wrote:
Bridgett Wrote:TB 2 IBO and systembalance rarely comment, but then decide to appear, in full force, when the topic is about systems and BSMs.

TB 2 IBO has about the same number of posts as me. I thought I commented too much. :dontknow:
TB 2 IBO Wrote:Bridgett, just because we do not comment or rarely comment does not mean we are not reading all or most of the threads.

As the stubborn person I am (working on it), it is hard for me to say this, but I am sorry if my words offended Deb or anyone for that matter. I just appreciate this business for what it offers to folks, especially to those people with little or no business background. It is a great business education for a fraction of the cost of college these days. It also ruffles my feathers (really makes me mad actually) to read, thread after thread about the negative past of bad decisions certain people make (or systems), as if each time it is mentioned yet again as some new revelation that people have not heard before. We get it, people are dumb sometimes and there are and were consequences to those dumb decisions, but it need not reflect on the good folk building this business the right way, including those using a system.

I doubt you offended Deb. And she doesn't need me to stick up for her.

You make a good point about moving on from the past. I need to do that so I can continue to grow my business. I have dwelt a lot in my failure. No good. :nono:
 Reply
#10
Bridgett Wrote:Well...then the vibe you give off is a one-dimensional, single-playing note person. As much as you crticize Deb of being like that, I'd say you are more like that, since she contributes in other discussions far more than BSMs, unlike you.

I'm not saying you SHOULD contribute more, I'm just saying how it appears.

Recheck the post logs Bridgett. I am at least a two note playing person. BSMs and the political arena. Plus I have posted and commented on many things in the past. Have not, as of late, because I have been "busy".

Quote:Honestly, unless we've walked in Deb's shoes, and lived and breathed Amway (not LTD, or any other system, but AMWAY) the way she did since she was a child, and seen the destruction of the Amway Business (in some groups), and the stalled growth of a business (in some markets) that she sees SO much potential for, I really don't think it's right to pile on her.

And so while you are so passionate about LTD, I think she is equally if not more passionate about Amway.
While you consider Amway to be Amway + LTD,
to her the Amway Business is simply Amway. Not Amway + XYZ System.
So, that gives her a pass on all things BSM and Amway? No one else dare voice an opinion different that the almighty Deb and her eons of experience in a crap system? No can call her out and tell her it is not how we have experienced "the system" and we find value in the CDs, books and other tools we have access to, without being forced to do so??

Quote:I find it sad that there has to be this division of loyalty or allegience or whatever you want to call it.
I am not calling it anything. I do not know what you mean by division in allegiance. If you mean between a system and Amway, then you don't understand. The two go hand in hand, and have to. If they do not, what is the end result? Having a business like TEAM, now with Monavie? No thanks. There can not be and is not any difference between the two, IMO. Perhaps that is what you perceive with WWDB, which is sad for those people.

Quote:While I understand you defending systems, I feel like progress is not going to be made unless we are open and honest about issues
. Agreed, but don't we already know the junk? Why do we have to continue to rehash the past each and every time someone mentions BSMs or Tools. We automatically get this instant throw back to the past and the "whoa is me stories". While it is key to remember the past and problems, it is never good to relive those moments time and time again.
It is only through labor and painful effort, by grim energy and resolute courage, that we move on to better things. --Roosevelt
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