Amway Talk

Wearyeyed wrote:MichMan,

Am I to understand that some people have not built a profitable, sustainable business, despite their drive to do so for their own goals and dreams.

That some of these same people believe they are paying for tools they find little or no value in?

That this select group could suddenly turn their business around, not because of their own personal goals and dreams, but if only they knew how much profit their system leaders make?

I'm gonna' need help with this one...

Yes, they could turn their business around by cutting expenses by saying no to their upline. With knowledge comes power.

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And people make decisions for one of TWO different reasons. Psychologists tell us that people make decisions to increase pleasure or to avoid pain.

You claim that people buy bsms simply to increase pleasure. But many people also buy bsms to avoid pain or conflict with their upline. Having this knowledge will help them make bsm decisions that are right for them.

MichMan wrote:If someone is encouraged to look under the hood of a used car, have it looked at by their own mechanic before they purchase it, they will take more responsibility for the purchase than if they take the salesman's word for the condition of the car.

In the same way, ibos should be made aware of the vast profits of bsms versus the actual business. Then they can evaluate if the REALLY need the new tools or if the LOAs are promoting them for self serving reasons.

With knowledge comes power. But Diamonds don't want to give up either.

I wasn't aware a typical car salesman had any real mechanical experience, or that most, if not all system leaders had to, at some point, build a network in their Amway career.

All the new IBO needs to determine that they REALLY need tools is to counsel with all the Platinums and beyond who did so without tools, and compare notes with the, apparently, unqualified few that did.

And, as a mechanic of nearly 12 years, the buyer should assume personal responsibility for the purchase REGARDLESS of who they chose to take mechanical advise from.

THAT'S personal responsibility, right down to where chose to take counsel...

By the way, as to your latest post, if you cannot overcome system expenses, it's the value you get from those expenses, not the profit made, that is in question.

Stop the expenses because you feel there is no VALUE, not because you now "know" how much someone else is making on them.

THAT'S personal responsibility, too!

MichMan wrote:If someone is encouraged to look under the hood of a used car, have it looked at by their own mechanic before they purchase it, they will take more responsibility for the purchase than if they take the salesman's word for the condition of the car.

You really torqued me with this one.

In your world, who takes responsibility for the buyer taking the salesman's word that the car was mechanically sound?

Come on!

You're dancing around personal responsibility like it is a bad habit.

MichMan wrote:You claim that people buy bsms simply to increase pleasure. But many people also buy bsms to avoid pain or conflict with their upline. Having this knowledge will help them make bsm decisions that are right for them.

Now you are defending a big "tools scam theory" by suggesting people find LESS "pain" with buying tools they find worthless than with "upsetting" their upline.

Whoa.

I suppose these same people then buy tools for the rest of their lives and never do anything in the business to avoid the "pain" of criticism from their friends, family, and strangers.

I'm sorry, who did you say takes responsibility for the buyer choosing to listen only to a salesman when determining the mechanical condition of their used-car purchase?



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I am not suggesting blatant lies are acceptable, but you are claiming people would take "more" personal responsibility, as if personal responsibility is a matter of degrees, if they only knew how much profit system leaders made on tools.

Wearyeyed wrote:

MichMan wrote:If someone is encouraged to look under the hood of a used car, have it looked at by their own mechanic before they purchase it, they will take more responsibility for the purchase than if they take the salesman's word for the condition of the car.

You really torqued me with this one.

In your world, who takes responsibility for the buyer taking the salesman's word that the car was mechanically sound?

Come on!

You're dancing around personal responsibility like it is a bad habit.

In the same respect, why should anyone take the Diamond's word that you need to buy more bsms?

A responsible person should say to the used car salesman and the diamond, "Thanks for your advice. I will get a second opinion and make the decision for myself."

MichMan wrote:In the same respect, why should anyone take the Diamond's word that you need to buy more bsms?

A responsible person should say to the used car salesman and the diamond, "Thanks for your advice. I will get a second opinion and make the decision for myself."

I agree!

Fortunately, there are way more Platinums and above who credit system tools than there are Platinums and above who do not. --EDIT: Heck, more people at ANY level who credit tools for some benefit!!

According to you, we should take the word of the handful of online tools critics over any group made up of active distributors.

In your example, they SHOULD get the opinion of a mechanic, and not a bunch of car salesmen.

Yet, your example is BRILLIANT in the critic world, as many of the ex-Amway critics run other businesses targeted at "failed" Awmay people, so it would be like asking a car salesman at ANOTHER dealer what they think of a competitors car.

In either case, the profits made do not change your personal responsibility for the choices you make.

MichMan wrote:

Ros wrote: if our main focus is on what "we" think is wrong with “others” and not on what "we" should be doing, then aren't we allowing others to determine our destiny and not taking personal responsibility for our own lives?

Just a thought.

- Ros

I believe that rank and file ibos will be MORE empowered to take personal responsibility if they know the truth about the bsm money being made by their upline diamond who is promoting the "new and improved" bsms.

We need to create an environment where they are EMPOWERED to take responsibility, if indeed we expect that from them.

MichMan,

What is a rank and file ibos? (lower case denotes weak and powerless)

I believe all IBOs (upper case denotes dignity and respect) have an equal opportunity to achieve whatever level of success “we” determine for ourselves.

To equate (degrade) an ibo as "rank and file" is to imply they are not in control of their own destiny. This is not true! Although if you believe it to be true, then it is for you.

At what point do you beleive a person responsible for their own actions and success?

IBOs are EMPOWERED, not by the environment, a government or by knowing some "truth" as you call it, but by their Creator. The truth is, we all have within us the power to choose to be responsible for own lives. We also choose to either use that power or give it away to others when we don’t.

A fundamental difference between Socialism and Democracy is who we give the power to control our lives. The state or ourselves?

Of course it’s far easier to allow others to tell us what to do so we don’t have to, but not nearly as fun or rewarding.

When I was told by my upline there was profits on BSM that was earned by “anyone” who achieved specific levels (Platinum and above) I did not feel any more “ENPOWERED” to take more or less responsibility for my business, that was a given. It always was and always will be my responsibility. For which I am grateful.

- Ros

Wearyeyed wrote:

MichMan wrote:If someone is encouraged to look under the hood of a used car, have it looked at by their own mechanic before they purchase it, they will take more responsibility for the purchase than if they take the salesman's word for the condition of the car.

You really torqued me with this one.

In your world, who takes responsibility for the buyer taking the salesman's word that the car was mechanically sound?

Come on!

You're dancing around personal responsibility like it is a bad habit.

Excellent comment Wearyeyed!

I will add that to my "exceptional quotes" and "excusses why I can't succeed" lists.

- Ros

I guess the million dollar questions for the tools profit critic are these:

If someone knew how much profit was being made by system leaders on system tools, would they put more effort into building a profitable Amway business and why?

The goal of building an Amway business is to create profit, at some level.

Provided system tools are appropriate for your goals, and with system expenses, even exaggerated, well within the earning potential of even a meager Amway business, what makes knowing the profit structure MORE motivating than whatever reason you started a marketing company to market Amway in the first place?

The whole argument that KNOWING system tools profits in some way determines the capacity to build an Amway business is absurd.

It's the second most unrelated thing to your ability to build the business to a profitable level; with knowing the number of frontline your upline Platinum has being the first.

Wearyeyed wrote:

MichMan wrote:In the same respect, why should anyone take the Diamond's word that you need to buy more bsms?

A responsible person should say to the used car salesman and the diamond, "Thanks for your advice. I will get a second opinion and make the decision for myself."

I agree!

Fortunately, there are way more Platinums and above who credit system tools than there are Platinums and above who do not. --EDIT: Heck, more people at ANY level who credit tools for some benefit!!

According to you, we should take the word of the handful of online tools critics over any group made up of active distributors.

In your example, they SHOULD get the opinion of a mechanic, and not a bunch of car salesmen.

Yet, your example is BRILLIANT in the critic world, as many of the ex-Amway critics run other businesses targeted at "failed" Awmay people, so it would be like asking a car salesman at ANOTHER dealer what they think of a competitors car.

In either case, the profits made do not change your personal responsibility for the choices you make.

Wearyeyed,

You're on a roll!

- Ros