superseiyan wrote:IBOFB, some LOAs use heavy handed tactics and subtly call you a loser if you don't buy A LOT of tools. Statements like 'winners listen to 3 Cds a day'. Or an upline will say, "here! And hand a tape to you and promote it".
A little awkward to not buy a lot of tools in such an environment.
It's somewhat problematic, because without questions education and tools ARE needed..
Bingo thanks suerseiyan for that good statement of where some groups are at.
Ros, Weareyed, IBOFB and others who make strong statements about personal responsibility and that someone who doesn't succeed it is their fault. I think that you forget that people are part of a community. Most peoples success in life rises and falls on the group of people they associate with. No doubt there are some exceptions, but for the majority of people the community that surrounds them is of incredible importance. It is great that you'll have found that the LOA you associate with a helpful, loving and supportive community.
We have just had World Youth Day (a week actually) across the ditch at Sydney. This Catholic thing to celebrate youth and what not. Now my kids got a wonderful small Catholic School, my Dad enjoys teaching at a large city catholic school. My wife and I are very grateful for the support services that Catholic support team provided after our third child. Both practically and emotional support of which helped us survive a very ruff patch. Am I going to support and champion the Catholic community (I am not a Catholic), absolutely because they have made a difference in our lives. However some have been abused by the Catholic church. I take note that one of the things that the Pope did when visiting Aussie was the apologize to sexual abuse victims of the Catholic church, he even meet personally with some. These abuse victims have seen a different side of the Catholic community. They are not likely to be to supportive of the community.
There is strong parallels here with the LOA's. The majority are supportive and make a positive difference in many peoples lives. However some are abusive. The things about abuse is that there is a power situation. The perpetrator of the abuse is in a position of power over the victim, who is powerless (upline/downline). By its very nature the victim is powerless, this is why abuse is so tragic. The other nasty thing about abuse is that the victim often is not aware of abuse occurring until the trap is shut and it is to late.
When I started in the business I was like a babe, did everything that my upline said, and thought I was the problem when the abuse occurred (fortunately my upline platinum shielded us from a large chuck of the c**p). Like a lamb to the slaughter, I didn't know better. Know if the same things occurs I would be very wise, I have grown and matured. And I would suspect that as most of us on this forum are mature in this business we wouldn't put up the abuse either.
Therefore to say things like "take personal responsibility for action, your success is your choice" must be true, but it is not the complete truth. The complete truth is a mixture of personal responsibility and community. If that community is one that destroys people by their emotional manipulation and abuse, it is not a supportive community but an abusive community. A victim of that abusive community actually needs to go through a ton of healing and processing before they are even able to re engage in any meaningful way. The "take personal responsibility and grow up line" to some one who is recovering from systems abuse, is like telling a clinically depressed person to be happy and read some positive thinking books. It might be true, but is actually counter productive.
I think this is where the disconnect is. Those who has not had to walk through the valley of death with abuse in their upline cannot relate to the issues that those who have been the victim of abuse bring to the table. And to make matters worse the abusive upline can say the same words as someone who is truely caring. Thus confusion can easily occur.
Hence ethical tools business is a topic of great passion. For it is likely be the area in which emotional abuse and financial abuse occurred.
The thing about abuse is that is often occurs in private, secret, subtle ways. Victims often then have a need for transparency. Do you think that if as child you were sexually abused by a priest that you would leave your kids alone with a priest? Highly unlikely, even if you were well healed, and still a Catholic. The same deal here. Those who have personally experienced tools abuse want the system to be transparent. So to them the lack of transparency and unethical conflict of interest is a very important issue.
Hope that this helps people to understand where some of us are coming from.
a no no to say anything that could be consrewed as negative. It is such a breath of fresh air to be able to speak my mind, and hopefully some truth on this forum. Without being hit over the head as being negative. 
So people can't formalize it through the corp. So it operates informally, and is dubious legality.