Amway Talk

ibofightback wrote:

MichMan wrote:I am just saying that one reason (one of many reasons) for fewer critics is that there are fewer ibos.

And I'm just saying that last time I looked 830,000 is not "fewer" than 750,000.

Amway's US volume is maybe half of what it was ten years ago. I have a hard time believing that your guess is accurate.

MichMan wrote:Amway's US volume is maybe half of what it was ten years ago. I have a hard time believing that your guess is accurate.

USAToday reported 1999 North America sales were 30% of global sales.

1999 Global sales were approx $3.8 billion

So 1999 US sales were approx $1.14 billion

About the same as recent years with Quixtar. Even inflation adjusted that's nothing like "maybe half"

In 1998, Amway reported sales of $5.7 Billion in estimated retail. They stated that 30 percent was from the US market. So the US volume was $1.71 Billion in estimated retail.

When we reduce that by 30 percent to distributor cost we come up with about $1.2 Billion.

After figuring for inflation, $1.2 Billion would equal roughly $1.6 Billion today.

So if Amway US was just to keep up with where it was 10 years ago, it would have to be at $1.6 Billion in US sales.

Last we knew, they were teetering at the $1 Billion mark. When the entire US Diamond organizations of Woodward,Brady, Haugen, Wilson, Florence, Harteis, Goeschel, etc left or were terminated, Amway stopped reporting US sales.

My guess is that sales dropped below the $1 billion mark into the $900 millions.

So maybe not half. Probably closer to 40 percent drop in sales.

If you read this post on TTAA, it's quite possible Amway's sales were UP last year, not down. Online sales were up.

And that's *after* TEAM, who I'm pretty certain was contributing close to zero to offline sales, was kicked out, as well as the loss of others who didn't like the Quixtar->Amway change. I've heard reports IBO numbers dropped as much as 30% last year.

Found a copy of the 1999 USA Today article

Looks to me it's possible the journalists may have just used a standard "30%" claim that had been out and about for a few years rather than a direct quote from the corp, so we may be arguing ghosts anyway.

Still, the article does seem to confirm 750,000 distributors, clearly that's still fewer than 850,000 and the issue under discussion isn't whether sales are down (as I said, I suspect with Quixtar IBO numbers went up but sales went down), the issue under discussion is whether complaints are down because there are fewer IBOs.

There is nothing i've found or you've given to support that claim.

If US sales were up last year, I am sure that Amway would have reported that fact, just like they do for other nations like India.

Plus they would have had the added incentive to rub it in the fact of Woodward/Brady etc. "See, sales were up even without you."

But instead, they chose, for the first time in 50 years, NOT to disclose US sales figures.

MichMan wrote:If US sales were up last year, I am sure that Amway would have reported that fact, just like they do for other nations like India.

I said as much in the article.

But instead, they chose, for the first time in 50 years, NOT to disclose US sales figures.

Uh. Yeah. For the first time in 50 years. You mean like the 1999 figures I had to guestimate 'cause they weren't published, or 1998 where YOU just had to guestimate sales because they weren't published. Or 1997 or 1996 or .............. well, pretty much every year since Canada opened.

And there's still no evidence to support your claim complaints are down because IBO numbers are down.

Michman, your bitter and twisted view of the world is truly a thing to amaze.

Amway/Alticor/Quixtar stopped reporting North American sales this past year. News accounts said they did it for "competitive" reasons. I would have to assume that Orrin Woodward was the competition they were referring to, since they were suing him for taking people to a competitive company.

Steve Van Andel and Doug DeVos both said that North America last year was "challenging," "hard" and "a struggle." (despite your "analysis.")

Up to you usual "change the subject" trick, hey MichMan?

Not buying it.

I want the North American sales data from 1959 to 2007, the stuff you claim they published every year until 2009.

Where is it?

Plus I want evidence the number of IBOs is down significantly and that's a significant reason there's few complaints

Where is it?

BTW, here is the quote from Alticor announcing that they were no longer going to give out the US/North American sales figures:

"market-specific sales figures have been subsumed into the overall corporate sales figure to preserve competitive advantage."

And it stands to reason that if fewer people are getting into this business, that fewer people will have bad experiences. I never said it was the only reason. I suggested it was a contributing reason.

I want the North American sales data from 1959 to 2007, the stuff you claim they published every year until 2009.

Where is it?

Plus I want evidence the number of IBOs is down significantly and that's a significant reason there's few complaints

Where is it?